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We need a coach....bottom line
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knicks1248
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4/5/2005  6:32 PM
We could come up with a team full of talant and still be right were we are today, it doesn't matter.

I'm sick of all these losing mediocre coach's who don't have a clue.
just look around the league at some of the coaching changes ( george karl in particular) same team different results, memphis, nets of last year and this year ect, ect.

Thats what matters the most. we went 10+ years with Ewing as the lone star in NY and made the playoffs every season. We had wash up players like Doc rivers, blackmon, derrick harper, skywalker, gerald wilkens, cba players like starks and anthony mason, offensively challenge players like charles Oak, greg anthony, and bums like chris childs, charles smith, i mean the list goes on, but we had a solid coach and never seem to lose more then 3 or 4 in a row.

The deepest we every been was in 99 with spree and camby. this roster has more talant on it then any of the teams ewing played with.

Notice how every player that left the the knicks in the ewing era never played the way they played in ny ( with the one exception of mason, briefly) they all flap big time including ewing.

This team has no disipline, can't execute for sh down the stretch, and still is struggling to find leadership, from the owner to the waterboy.

I mean whats really going on..
ES
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rvhoss
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4/5/2005  6:42 PM
nets of last year? Who is lawrence frank?

why can't that be herb?

[Edited by - rvhoss on 04/05/2005 18:44:51]
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Bonn1997
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4/5/2005  7:04 PM
Sorry, but we don't have a team full of talent. We have a star PG and four below average starters. I'm much more interested in what players Isiah adds this offseason than in the coach.
gunsnewing
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4/5/2005  7:07 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Sorry, but we don't have a team full of talent. We have a star PG and four below average starters. I'm much more interested in what players Isiah adds this offseason than in the coach.

thats true. I really want Phil but I can live with Herb as long as we have a good draft and if we draft a potential star he has to get some burn right away and sign a good player for the MLE.


somehow I doubt the Knicks would ever play a rookie over a Kurt thomas, malik rose

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 04/05/2005 19:18:20]
knicks1248
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4/5/2005  7:10 PM
I recall frank winning 13 straight after the dissmal start with b scott, you didn't here him preaching that training camp non sense. Thats just an exscuse for a mediocre coach who hasn't got a clue.
ES
knicks1248
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4/5/2005  8:55 PM
Sorry, but we don't have a team full of talent

We have pretty much the same talant as every body else in the east.

Besides shaq, eddie and wade miami really has a boat load of role players
I mean really, take a hard look into the east top nine teams there 2 to 3 20+ scores on a team.

My point to make it short and simple, good coaches don't need a lot to aleast make the playoffs. I gave chaney the benifit of the doubt as well as lenny, what did they do with a training camp...nothing note worthy..please herbs not that much better.
ES
Bonn1997
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4/5/2005  9:33 PM
Posted by knicks1248:
Sorry, but we don't have a team full of talent

We have pretty much the same talant as every body else in the east.
I don't know about that. I think very few teams are worse 2 through 5 than we are.

I mean really, take a hard look into the east top nine teams there 2 to 3 20+ scores on a team.
And we have ONE 20+ scorer. There's a huge difference between having one and two let alone three 20+ scorers (regardless of the team's problems on defense).

good coaches don't need a lot to aleast make the playoffs.
I'd agree with that, but I think you still need more than the Knicks have. If TT and Crawford played to their ability, it would be a completely different story. But TT never has and never will for a full season. Crawford hasn't yet, but I'm still hoping that he can at improve a bit or be given a smaller role on the team if he doesn't improve.
OldFan
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4/6/2005  5:42 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

We could come up with a team full of talant and still be right were we are today, it doesn't matter.

I'm sick of all these losing mediocre coach's who don't have a clue.
just look around the league at some of the coaching changes ( george karl in particular) same team different results, memphis, nets of last year and this year ect, ect.

Thats what matters the most. we went 10+ years with Ewing as the lone star in NY and made the playoffs every season. We had wash up players like Doc rivers, blackmon, derrick harper, skywalker, gerald wilkens, cba players like starks and anthony mason, offensively challenge players like charles Oak, greg anthony, and bums like chris childs, charles smith, i mean the list goes on, but we had a solid coach and never seem to lose more then 3 or 4 in a row.

The deepest we every been was in 99 with spree and camby. this roster has more talant on it then any of the teams ewing played with.

Notice how every player that left the the knicks in the ewing era never played the way they played in ny ( with the one exception of mason, briefly) they all flap big time including ewing.

This team has no disipline, can't execute for sh down the stretch, and still is struggling to find leadership, from the owner to the waterboy.

I mean whats really going on..

Coaching matters but you have under-estimated the talent of those teams. They weren't quite championship but they were pretty good. Ewing was much better then Marbury. And Mason, Starks and Oakley were better then anyone else currently on this team. It would take me about a 1/2 second to take Gerald Wilkens over crawford and even Charles Smith as pitiful as he could be was better then TT. Most of those teams were better then this team and the bench was better too. Defensively they were better at EVERY position. So yeah coaching matters - but those teams had a ton of talent compared to this one.
nyk4ever
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4/6/2005  6:01 PM
I love Herb Williams but I think this Knicks team needs a dictator in there coaching, esepcially depending on who we draft this year. If Gerald Greene gets drafted by the Knicks, then they need a Phil Jax or a Flip Saunders in here to coach a kid like that who has been known to slack off a bit for whatever reason. I love Herb Williams, I think he has done a good job coaching this current roster but I think they need someone in here that will yell at Marbury and Crawford when their man blows past them like they always do.. Lenny never did that and Herb isn't doing that. Sweetney needs a coach like this too if he's going to be here since he NEEDS to lose that weight. Something has to be done, no more patchwork coaches, the Knicks need to solidify this for years to come.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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4/6/2005  6:18 PM
just curious as to how Flip Saunders is a better option at this point? i mean his team had the talent to be a title contender this season, yet they were underachieving even more than the Knicks were in comparison...

Phil, Riley, Larry...these are the only 3 guys Dolan should be considering if you ask me.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
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4/6/2005  6:21 PM
Posted by TMS:

just curious as to how Flip Saunders is a better option at this point? i mean his team had the talent to be a title contender this season, yet they were underachieving even more than the Knicks were in comparison...

Phil, Riley, Larry...these are the only 3 guys Dolan should be considering if you ask me.

I agree that they had a rough season this year but thats one year in the 10 year run that Flip was there that they struggled. He got the most of every player on the team night in night out for 9 years and lets be honest Sprewell and Hudson didn't help matters this year. Flip has always demanded the most from his team and I think if you asked KG that he'd tell you the same thing and so would Marbury. The guy is great coach and he gets the most from his teams.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
VDesai
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4/6/2005  7:28 PM
Flip is a good option with a winning track record, a good relationship with Marbury. He also has the knowledge of how to implement and effectively run a zone defense, which we desperately need since we're so deficient 1 on 1 most of the time.

Phil is an obvious choice, like him or hate him (and I hate him). If he's out there and he wants the job, we have to give it to him with his track record.

I'm operating on the assumption that Larry won't be available, and the legends like Riley and Daly are done with coaching. IMO the last two aren't realistic options. YOu never know with Larry Brown, but we'd probably have to give up major compensation to get him.

But if we're just gonna go with a young/unproven guy you might as well give Herb a shot. I, for one, like Eric Musselman (former Warriors coach) a lot, but he's got a lot to prove as well.

One thing is for sure, the coach needs to come here and assert himself and his system and identity, and bring some focused and consistent play to this squad.
Killa4luv
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4/6/2005  8:53 PM
I like Flip, he's the most realistic at this point too. If not Flip, LArry or Phil, Herb has gotta keep his job, he's done [retty god IMO.
knicks1248
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4/7/2005  12:28 AM
Where does it say a coach that loses 8 to 9 straight games, and is right on pace to lose 8 to 9 more. How is he doing a good job?? thats the most ridiculous statement I have ever read, To lose 8 straight in any sport is immediate grounds to fire the coach. To lose 8 straight twice in a 2 month span is even worse. And you say he's doing a good job. Even the pitiful chaney with less talant did better then herb.

sorry.. buu byy herb, Stick to assisting. I have no faith in him and it shouldn't take a guru to figure that out.

Wade ended our season with that buzzer beater, I haven't watch a game for more then a qrtr since, prior to that I've miss perhaps 5 games in the last 5 seasons or more.

The difference between the players of the ewing era and the talant we have now is base on work ethic. Those players like starks, mason, c smith, wilkens, greg anthony, ect had less talant, but work there buts off and played hard and smart for 48 minutes and 82 games. This roster has a lot more talant and lot less work ethic and smarts, and when the 4th qtr clutch time comes around they are the ( if not the dumbest) one of the worst teams in the league. That comes from coaching. Our training staff is also to blame, and IT should have step in and finish what he started, but all he wants to do is hide behind a bad coach.

ES
crzymdups
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4/7/2005  12:47 AM
Posted by knicks1248:

Where does it say a coach that loses 8 to 9 straight games, and is right on pace to lose 8 to 9 more. How is he doing a good job?? thats the most ridiculous statement I have ever read, To lose 8 straight in any sport is immediate grounds to fire the coach. To lose 8 straight twice in a 2 month span is even worse. And you say he's doing a good job. Even the pitiful chaney with less talant did better then herb.

sorry.. buu byy herb, Stick to assisting. I have no faith in him and it shouldn't take a guru to figure that out.

Wade ended our season with that buzzer beater, I haven't watch a game for more then a qrtr since, prior to that I've miss perhaps 5 games in the last 5 seasons or more.

The difference between the players of the ewing era and the talant we have now is base on work ethic. Those players like starks, mason, c smith, wilkens, greg anthony, ect had less talant, but work there buts off and played hard and smart for 48 minutes and 82 games. This roster has a lot more talant and lot less work ethic and smarts, and when the 4th qtr clutch time comes around they are the ( if not the dumbest) one of the worst teams in the league. That comes from coaching. Our training staff is also to blame, and IT should have step in and finish what he started, but all he wants to do is hide behind a bad coach.

or maybe Marbury chokes in the clutch. How many last second shots has he ATTEMPTED all year? How many times has he passed it off at the end of the game to those same teammates he scowls at all game long?


To blame Herb at this point is ridiculous. The season ended on the West Coast. I can't blame the team for not fighting. I'm proud of them for fighting so hard after the all-star break and I give Herb credit for that stretch. A coach can only do so much. This team has awful talent. Whoever said Marbury and a bunch of bench players is dead-on. Tell me what playoff team Kurt Thomas would start for? How about Tim Thomas? Sweetney? You have to be kidding me? Jamal? I don't think so. This team needs talent all over the place and has since Camby and Spree left town. Blaming Herb is fine, but I'd like to see what Larry Brown or Phil Jackson would do with this exact team, because THAT would be UGLY.
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diderotn
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4/7/2005  6:55 AM
A coach can only do so much, but the little bit that they can do has a great effect on how the talents that we have react. I am all for keeping Herb around, but there are too many big names out there that can do a much better job the he can. Look here, George Karl is doing a wonderful job in Denver, and so is Fratelo. I will say this much, if the choice comes down to Silas, Phil, Brown, and Herb, I will take the first three before considering Herb.

To blame Herb at this point is ridiculous. The season ended on the West Coast. I can't blame the team for not fighting. I'm proud of them for fighting so hard after the all-star break and I give Herb credit for that stretch. A coach can only do so much. This team has awful talent. Whoever said Marbury and a bunch of bench players is dead-on. Tell me what playoff team Kurt Thomas would start for? How about Tim Thomas? Sweetney? You have to be kidding me? Jamal? I don't think so. This team needs talent all over the place and has since Camby and Spree left town. Blaming Herb is fine, but I'd like to see what Larry Brown or Phil Jackson would do with this exact team, because THAT would be UGLY.
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