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diderotn
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4/2/2005  11:46 AM
I think that one of the worst thing that has happened during Isiah's tenure was the fact that they made the playoffs last season. We, the fans, were expecting a lot more from this mediocre roster that partly was put together by Isiah, and the other half that he has inherited. Missing the playoffs this season is more than a blessing, because it let us and the organization know that they truly have a long way to go.

This organization has been using the wrong philosophy for a long time now, and getting out of the mind set will take a while. Teams don't really have to have a high payroll to win championship, nor that they need to have super-stars. A team is exactly what it is, a team. It is not a team if all the pieces don't operate in unisom. Win as one and lose as one. Defend as one and score as one.

Next season will be different. Isiah has a better feel for what he needs, and most of all, he is in a much better situation with the picks that he has. I was hoping that we missed the playoffs last season and make it this season, just so we would have something to build from. However, I will take it just the way it is, because losing tend to make men out of boys.
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Silverfuel
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4/2/2005  11:50 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Next season will be different.
We (fans that post on ultimate) have discussed this numerous times on this forum. Next year is Isiah's chance to show real progress. TT & Penny's expiring contracts will be valuable at the trade deadline. Isiah and his crew should be able to come up with something creative at that time. After the trading deadline next year, this team should CLEARLY be on its way to becoming a winning franchise.

Call him Messiah if you want to but I think next trade deadline is also his DEADLINE to deliver.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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4/2/2005  11:52 AM
where do tomverve, Nalod and Marv stand on this? You guys agree that the grace period runs out for Isiah at the trade deadline next year?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
diderotn
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4/2/2005  11:54 AM
I agree....But, he also has to have a solid coach to nurture the players that we have around...One who is not too soft.

As for the guys that you have mentioned, they are all against everything that Isiah has done so far, they don't even want to give the man a chance..

[Edited by - diderotn on 04/02/2005 11:56:22]
The true Knickabocker..........
Silverfuel
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4/2/2005  12:01 PM
Posted by diderotn:

As for the guys that you have mentioned, they are all against everything that Isiah has done so far, they don't even want to give the man a chance..
Come on man! They are usually unbaised and I like how they are concise. Also, our loyalty lies with the Knicks not with one player, coach or GM.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
diderotn
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4/2/2005  2:26 PM
I agree, but in the same token, we are to learn to be patient. We can't keep on with the hatred that is around for Isiah. He is trying the best of his knowledge to turn this franchise around. he is trying, but these fans want to see success immediatley. They want Isiah to snap his fingers to get our bad contracts out of town.

You have to lose some to gain some....if we continue to lose, we might endup with a higher draft pick. That equation works with every conditions of life.

Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by diderotn:

As for the guys that you have mentioned, they are all against everything that Isiah has done so far, they don't even want to give the man a chance..
Come on man! They are usually unbaised and I like how they are concise. Also, our loyalty lies with the Knicks not with one player, coach or GM.
The true Knickabocker..........
Nalod
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4/2/2005  3:01 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

where do tomverve, Nalod and Marv stand on this? You guys agree that the grace period runs out for Isiah at the trade deadline next year?

I can stand the losing if we had a difinitive direction. I could stomach this season if we had blown it up. But Isiah got some talent here, but it ain't working.

If he is saying lets go to plan b, then lets do it. But don't try to sell me on this team, which they did, and then back up on it.

He should have his 4 years. Just show me a plan, and we can measure it from here!
Nalod
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4/2/2005  3:05 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I think that one of the worst thing that has happened during Isiah's tenure was the fact that they made the playoffs last season. We, the fans, were expecting a lot more from this mediocre roster that partly was put together by Isiah, and the other half that he has inherited. Missing the playoffs this season is more than a blessing, because it let us and the organization know that they truly have a long way to go.

This organization has been using the wrong philosophy for a long time now, and getting out of the mind set will take a while. Teams don't really have to have a high payroll to win championship, nor that they need to have super-stars. A team is exactly what it is, a team. It is not a team if all the pieces don't operate in unisom. Win as one and lose as one. Defend as one and score as one.

Next season will be different. Isiah has a better feel for what he needs, and most of all, he is in a much better situation with the picks that he has. I was hoping that we missed the playoffs last season and make it this season, just so we would have something to build from. However, I will take it just the way it is, because losing tend to make men out of boys.

Dido, your basing much on wishful thinking. Its good to be a fan, ans we all are here.

We have a good pick this year cuz we suck. That is not a good thing.

Your right about alot of things regarding TEAM, and that is so lacking on this collection of self centered idiots. Isiah made some big moves since he got here, very ambitious ones. It has blown up in his face and we are worse than we were two years ago! Thats wins and loses baby! The record speaks for itself.

The future remains as it is always, UNCERTAIN!
diderotn
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4/2/2005  4:42 PM
It is not wishfull thinking when you have options that can actually get us out of our current situation. My only problem is the fact that I don't know who our coach will be next season. I do believe that it all starts with the coach. You can have wonderful players around to play, but until you have a coach that can combine Xs & Os and good discipline there will always be a chemistry problems. Lenny wasn't that type of coach; Isiah knew that and he didn't even allow him to have his own coaching staff. Herb? I am still not sold on him. He has done a couple of good things this season, but i can't judge him until he has a full season under his belt. Isiah has a very tough decision to make, frankly, Silas would have been my choice if I were the one making the call. He understand the game, and would bring much credibility in our locker room.

I don't care if we have the best player around, KG is an example, until the team can perform as a unit, I.E., coaches and players together on the same sheet of music, the result will be no better than what we have.

Dido, your basing much on wishful thinking. Its good to be a fan, ans we all are here.

We have a good pick this year cuz we suck. That is not a good thing.

Your right about alot of things regarding TEAM, and that is so lacking on this collection of self centered idiots. Isiah made some big moves since he got here, very ambitious ones. It has blown up in his face and we are worse than we were two years ago! Thats wins and loses baby! The record speaks for itself.

The future remains as it is always, UNCERTAIN!
The true Knickabocker..........
Bonn1997
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4/2/2005  5:38 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Silverfuel:

where do tomverve, Nalod and Marv stand on this? You guys agree that the grace period runs out for Isiah at the trade deadline next year?

I can stand the losing if we had a difinitive direction. I could stomach this season if we had blown it up. But Isiah got some talent here, but it ain't working.

If he is saying lets go to plan b, then lets do it. But don't try to sell me on this team, which they did, and then back up on it.

He should have his 4 years. Just show me a plan, and we can measure it from here!
It would be counterproductive for any GM to discuss their plan in detail with the public. I'm fine with him saying something vague liking "the goal is to get younger and more athletic." I'd say 80% of his moves have clearly fit that plan too. No GM is going to have more than 80% of his moves appear to fit the publicly stated plan. That's something some people here just can't comprehend. (I'm NOT singling you out, Nalod.)
Marv
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4/2/2005  7:08 PM
I'm looking less at a specific time frame for Isiah and more at how much sense his moves make. Personlly I was a big supporter of the moves he made last year. Sorry to be repetitive, but again I saw it as an excellent attempt to "retool," i.e., slowly work up the win total while gradually getting younger and being willing to take on some higher-priced vets to get there. I think things fell apart for 3 reasons: Houston, TT and Baker. All 3 were huge. I'm one who had penciled Allan in for at least 60 games and 16-20 points. Re: TT, I saw him as having his kind of a breakout year, a la 18 and 5. Baker was a huge blow. I bought into the hype re: the change the heart surgery was going to bring. He would have been huge for us, a 6'11" inside presence. Remember early last year for Boston, he averaged something like 15 and 7?

All right, it was a good try by Isiah and I think it might have worked if a couple of things had gone down differently. But the deal now has to be going to Plan B, much more of a rebuilding mode. The Nazr trade was in that direction; the MoT move was not. We desperately need size. We desperately need athleticism around the rim. Isiah's got draft picks to work with. He's going to have some tradable assets as contracts get near their expiring years. I'm still with him, but I really want to see: size, youth, athleticism, shedding of high-priced role players.
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