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i want to hear the fans views on this team after the last 4 games
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BRIGGS
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3/30/2005  2:26 PM
after spending 100s of millions of dollars the past 1 1/2 years and flipping the roster over, tell me, what your view is on the team that was fully healthy playing and THEN losing a still legitimate playoff spot to teams who had nothing to play for and were on losing streaks?
what do you take out of the last 4 games? what do they tell you? they tell me we spent a shtload of money and dont have much to show for it other than marbury. for all of the money we have spent, we should have a higher talent level.

and for those who btched me out because im scared this dude will pull something like penny plus a pick for mike finley, tell me what evidence do i have not to be worried? or that we will spend our mle on a dude like damon stoudemire? come on, we spent 7mm on 33 YO vin baker, we extended kT for 35mm, we gave up a 2 and took back 30mm in contracts for the right to have mo taylor play once in awhile. we spent 56 mm on a player, who i think we can all agree on is a chicken sht, a guy who hides behind the 3 pt line who has absolutely no cahones. that we traded for malik rose oK, but we alredy have jYD

so where do i have confidence here folks?????????????????????????
these games scared me a lot more than just being thrown out of the playoffs, it showed that with all the vets put together, we couldnt win must win games against bad teams

if you think this is a re-iteration, please bypass.
RIP Crushalot😞
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tkf
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3/30/2005  2:50 PM
All I can tell you brigs is to panic, because we know that It is going to trade our lottery pick, ariza and sweetney for finley and Bradley. Then we are going to trade future picks for elden campbell... There you go, are you happy, it seems that there is no way to convince you otherwise, so I might as well join in the "sky is falling" party...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
jaydh
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3/30/2005  3:28 PM
c'mon, Zeke didnt get us in this mess, thats ridiculous. And while we are over the cap, what does it matter if we trade vinny and moochie for taylor. Like we arent going to be over the cap even when his contract comes off the books. Zeke knows this team isnt going anywhere until Houston comes off the books, and thats not his fault, so is he going to swap a worthless moochie and a worthless vinny for a somewhat worthy taylor, who will contribute every once in a while, hell yea, since now he has a player who can time to time contribute and it wont affect his cap sitation. Its not like he gave up anything worthy, and its not like having that 7mil come off the books does anything for us, might as well turn it into an player who can be dealt at a later time. DUH dont even say hes not dealable, considering what Zeke has had to get rid of so far. sick of hearing people complain about us not competing. about us being over the cap.. NO SH!T, open your eyes, and get over it. its going to take time, not everyone can be the pacers, and rip off the bulls and rebuild in 1 year, its not going to happen.
Pharzeone
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3/30/2005  3:47 PM
Briggs, I will not agree there is nothing left to play for. I agree with decreasing Marbury's minutes but I don't want to see Ariza get that much more minutes. Suppose this guy is not that great, I don't think the Knicks should expose his flaws more if he can be used a trade bait. That is what I fear most about giving Ariza playing time if he ain't ready. Give Jamal heavy minutes at the pg spot, revisit the now annual Houston situation. Are you playing or you not playing next season, type of deal. Let TT get alot of minutes to increase his trade stock. Personally I wouldn't play Sweetney anymore until he losses weight. Is it my imagination or is this guy getting bigger and bigger every game. It is now a crime not to have Jackie Butler in these games, this guy was pretty awesome in the NBADL, better than Jackson. I agree with many that Rose must assume leadership on this team.

[Edited by - Pharzeone on 03/30/2005 16:23:44]
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Nalod
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3/30/2005  3:51 PM
Be afraid, be very afraid!

I still have confidence in Isiah. He failed big time this year, but there still is hope.

KT is worthy of his contract. He is not pretty in his game, but he gets it done!
Pharzeone
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3/30/2005  4:32 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Be afraid, be very afraid!

I still have confidence in Isiah. He failed big time this year, but there still is hope.

KT is worthy of his contract. He is not pretty in his game, but he gets it done!

I agree about KT, at the time you couldn't just let him go. You had teams like Dallas trying to short change the Knicks for KT. Besides his trade value is still high. This too, you can't love him for getting 2 1st round picks for Mohammed and then say he is going to give them up for Finley. That's not fair. The Knicks are a horrible road team but play great at home. Not sure, where the blame for this belongs. Herb and his staff is getting sort of a pass on this. If a player stinks all the time then it is the player's fault but if it is situational then at what point do you look at how they are being manage, coached or just plained utilized. How good is the preparation. I like Herb but to just throw the players under the bus and the coaching staff. That's not fair. So far we have only talk about players. To me, Isiah biggest move this offseason will be who he selects as his next Head Coach, and their coaching staff.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Killa4luv
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3/30/2005  4:46 PM
We have a decent situation.

Steph has been doing everything he should on a very consistant basis.

We have Tim Thomas, who has been playing really well as of late.
TT has been avging 17 points a game since the break. Let me be the first to say that unless we can get a big man shotblocker type for him we should resign him. He is a valuable player, and with the emergence of Ariza next year, we can more easily bench him when he plays like a beeotch which happens less and less. That would be a nice rotation at the 3.

Crawfords assists have been up since the break as well. He hasn't really figured out what to do and that is probably as much his fault as Herb's. Give him time and Herb or a new coach will fix that.

We have talent, just not where we need it. We shoulda picked up Kenny Anderson to back up Steph. and we need some interior D. If we had a Marcus Camby type, we would have probably won all of our last 4 road trip games. We have enough assets tp get that type of player too.

In he off-season all of our fowards should be up for grabs.
Realistacly we could turn should try to turn KT & Sweets into a 7 foot shotblocker with potential like Sammy D, Tyson Chandler or low post scorer like Eddy Curry.

But we dont suck. We have a decent team and we have talent but it is not exactly where we need it. We have too many players that do the same thing.

KT & Rose are similar
Sweetney & Taylor are similar

but we have 2 picks and penny's contract and TT's which we should resign for less money of course. We have options. With the right moves in the offseason, we could be in a position to be an elite east team.
SkyWalker
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3/30/2005  4:58 PM
OK - I will say the positives first and then the negatives.

POSITIVES:
1) Compared to before IT, we are definitely in a better position. Not to say we are in a good position now but definitely better. Think about our team for a second that we could have if Layden remained - Eisley, Houston in streetclothes, weatherspoon, shandon anderson, van horn, Doleac or any of those other players that don't even deserve to be mentioned. (No Ariza - Layden would never have picked Ariza. He focuses more on a player's fundamental basketball skills and less on athletic ability.)
2) Crawford was signed this offseason to be the "vinny Johnson" for the Knicks. IT was expecting a healthy backcourt of Marbury and Houston with Crawford as that scoring punch off the bench. When you think about it, Crawford can fill that role real well. The guy can come in for 5 minutes in a game and score in big bunches by jacking up shots. At the same time, he would be developing his game even more without much pressure because Houston would still be the starting 2
Kenny SkyWalker
SkyWalker
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3/30/2005  4:59 PM
I still have more to say but i have to run
Kenny SkyWalker
bigpimpin
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3/30/2005  5:21 PM
My viewpoint is this.

Although my beloved Knicks missed the playoffs, I am happy that I never felt tortured when i watch the games. I felt like I felt when i use to "couldn't wait" for the game to come on. So that's a plus.

I can't understand why this team can't win more games than they lose but I do have hope for next year. That's something that I haven't felt in a minute. So that's a plus.

I am happy that I don't have to watch Lenny Wilkins anymore. I'm happy that we have someone that does know something about the game. That's a plus. I'm happy that Tim Thomas decided he wanted to play basketball again so that has helped.

I wish that the Knicks could get lucky and land a player in the draft or in a trade that will become a "difference-maker" but time will tell.


Check back with me on draft night
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
nyk4ever
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3/30/2005  5:32 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

My viewpoint is this.

Although my beloved Knicks missed the playoffs, I am happy that I never felt tortured when i watch the games. I felt like I felt when i use to "couldn't wait" for the game to come on. So that's a plus.

I can't understand why this team can't win more games than they lose but I do have hope for next year. That's something that I haven't felt in a minute. So that's a plus.

I am happy that I don't have to watch Lenny Wilkins anymore. I'm happy that we have someone that does know something about the game. That's a plus. I'm happy that Tim Thomas decided he wanted to play basketball again so that has helped.

I wish that the Knicks could get lucky and land a player in the draft or in a trade that will become a "difference-maker" but time will tell.


Check back with me on draft night

I think BigPimpin said it right. The Knicks have some pieces in place but we're all not as pesamistic as you are Briggs. I think Isiah did an excellent job in bringing in key players like Marbury, Crawford, Rose, and Ariza and he now has 3 draft picks this year in a draft that is going to be stockpiled in talent. What is he going to do with the draft picks that we have? Well #1 the lottery pick can't be traded so we're going to get a player thats for sure. Chris Taft maybe? McCants maybe? who knows, but itll be a good player. Theres also our 2 remaining picks, those will be used to address other needs that arent addressed with the lotto pick. In the end if we keep the picks or trade whoever we draft after draft day for a player that Isiah thinks will help us out then thats fine with me. I have the utmost confidence in him to do the right thing with this team and to Hire the right coach. I'm extremely optimistic.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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3/30/2005  5:49 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigpimpin:

My viewpoint is this.

Although my beloved Knicks missed the playoffs, I am happy that I never felt tortured when i watch the games. I felt like I felt when i use to "couldn't wait" for the game to come on. So that's a plus.

I can't understand why this team can't win more games than they lose but I do have hope for next year. That's something that I haven't felt in a minute. So that's a plus.

I am happy that I don't have to watch Lenny Wilkins anymore. I'm happy that we have someone that does know something about the game. That's a plus. I'm happy that Tim Thomas decided he wanted to play basketball again so that has helped.

I wish that the Knicks could get lucky and land a player in the draft or in a trade that will become a "difference-maker" but time will tell.


Check back with me on draft night

I think BigPimpin said it right. The Knicks have some pieces in place but we're all not as pesamistic as you are Briggs. I think Isiah did an excellent job in bringing in key players like Marbury, Crawford, Rose, and Ariza and he now has 3 draft picks this year in a draft that is going to be stockpiled in talent. What is he going to do with the draft picks that we have? Well #1 the lottery pick can't be traded so we're going to get a player thats for sure. Chris Taft maybe? McCants maybe? who knows, but itll be a good player. Theres also our 2 remaining picks, those will be used to address other needs that arent addressed with the lotto pick. In the end if we keep the picks or trade whoever we draft after draft day for a player that Isiah thinks will help us out then thats fine with me. I have the utmost confidence in him to do the right thing with this team and to Hire the right coach. I'm extremely optimistic.


I'm not giving up on anything and I don't want to sound overly pessimistic. But I feel we have spent a LOT of money, a HUGE amount of money and I think for what we spent, the team's talent level should be higher. You know if we come out of the offseason with a Zach randolph and three nice caliber picks--if we are ABLE to be pro-active in a way that really seems positive, then Im cool. Im cool with that Malik Rose trade because he brings toughness ALTHOUGH he is not talented enough to play more than 15-20 minutes like he did for the Spurs. Hes to small to be a 30+ player. To me, he is a better version of the JYD, which makes the JYD expendable.

No more stick figures or 30+ YO.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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3/30/2005  5:56 PM
I'm not giving up on anything and I don't want to sound overly pessimistic. But I feel we have spent a LOT of money, a HUGE amount of money and I think for what we spent, the team's talent level should be higher. You know if we come out of the offseason with a Zach randolph and three nice caliber picks--if we are ABLE to be pro-active in a way that really seems positive, then Im cool. Im cool with that Malik Rose trade because he brings toughness ALTHOUGH he is not talented enough to play more than 15-20 minutes like he did for the Spurs. Hes to small to be a 30+ player. To me, he is a better version of the JYD, which makes the JYD expendable.

No more stick figures or 30+ YO.

I can totally agree with you there except that I dont care about the money that has been spent since its not mine so thats that. I dont want Zach Randolph but I know your just saying if isiah can bring in a impact player like Zach and I agree with that. This offseason and next trade deadline are big for Isiah, we'll be able to really judge what kind of job he has done once both of these are done.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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3/30/2005  8:02 PM
the SCARIEST thing about the past few weeks is that sweetney is actually REGRESSING. that's not a good sign.

i think this team really needs to re-evaluate the way it views the cap and the type of players it brings in. hardworking ROLE players are good to have but not if they make over $7 mil a year. then they are unmoveable until, here's the magic phrase, they're FINAL year which is an awful way to do business. when you're players BEST asset is the last year of their contract, then there's a problem. when this team realizes to let they big $$$'s go and bring in more reasonably priced players (< $5 mil), then it will be in the right direction. so far, it's been 5 years of operating like this without ewing and we have ZERO to show for it.

keep acquiring draft picks, keep USING draft picks, and keep building a team of < 25 year old players. this summer, we can INFUSE this team with 3 draft picks to go along with craw, ariza, sweets to give us SIX players under 25 and making cheap money. then next season, we have 2 more picks so by the end of 06, we should have 7-9 players on the roster under 25 making < $5-6 mil. that's how you build a team. not constant moving of salaries and taking back players other teams don't want anymore. detroit did it BUT they did it by giving those guys $5-7 mil/year deals, not $9-14 mil year deals.
Bonn1997
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3/30/2005  9:30 PM
"Does shooting 36% 3s really hurt the team? Statistically, it's the same as shooting 54% 2s." - Bonn1997 (sorry dude but this is CLASSIC)
LOL! I just noticed that now. Why would you apologize? I'm not ashamed to have accurate multiplication skills. I didn't say it was practically the equivalent of shooting 54% 2s. That's a separate discussion. I only said it was statistically equivalent. You actually found that interesting enough to use as your signature? Whatever makes you happy...
djsunyc
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3/30/2005  9:36 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
"Does shooting 36% 3s really hurt the team? Statistically, it's the same as shooting 54% 2s." - Bonn1997 (sorry dude but this is CLASSIC)
LOL! I just noticed that now. Why would you apologize? I'm not ashamed to have accurate multiplication skills. I didn't say it was practically the equivalent of shooting 54% 2s. That's a separate discussion. I only said it was statistically equivalent. You actually found that interesting enough to use as your signature? Whatever makes you happy...

i found the depths that you would go to to defend something that is clearly a negative (in the crawford thread) absolutely hilarious.
Bonn1997
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3/31/2005  10:23 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
"Does shooting 36% 3s really hurt the team? Statistically, it's the same as shooting 54% 2s." - Bonn1997 (sorry dude but this is CLASSIC)
LOL! I just noticed that now. Why would you apologize? I'm not ashamed to have accurate multiplication skills. I didn't say it was practically the equivalent of shooting 54% 2s. That's a separate discussion. I only said it was statistically equivalent. You actually found that interesting enough to use as your signature? Whatever makes you happy...

i found the depths that you would go to to defend something that is clearly a negative (in the crawford thread) absolutely hilarious.
The depths that I would go? You mean four sentences? You have a generous sense of humor I guess. That's a good quality
crzymdups
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3/31/2005  10:42 AM
I think over the last four games it became crystal clear that Jamal is not just a defensive problem, but a huge, gaping defensive SEIVE. Kurt and Sweets looked small against longer, tougher bigs. Tim can score with anyone but anyone can score with Tim, so he's a wash on even his best nights and a terrible minus if he's off.

Marbury has proved again and again he's a star on his own. I have no problem building around the guy, but I'd love to get him a star SG who is BIG, like 6'7" - a young Finley, not the real Finley. Or a star PF who is BIG, prototypical, 6'10" minimum. None of the skinny ass Splitter or Vasquez. Give me Taft or Bogut or else get a stud SG. Don't dream about stealing JRich from the GSW, steal the NEXT JRich in the draft.

If we could get a stud SG with the lotto pick and get some size like Frye or Blatch with the 29th pick, I'd be happy.

Right now, my DREAM scenario (other than winning the lotto) is moving up to the 5th or 6th pick by losing out and grabbing Taft. Then grab a guy like Julius Hodge with the 29th pick.

I think Warrick would help the team too, and he's high on my list of lotto potentials. I think his game would look real nice with Marbs and Ariza. I think Craw is still a valuable piece, especially if he can play point while Marbs scores. Craw would look a lot better on D with a shotblocker to clean up his mistakes.
¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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3/31/2005  10:44 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
"Does shooting 36% 3s really hurt the team? Statistically, it's the same as shooting 54% 2s." - Bonn1997 (sorry dude but this is CLASSIC)
LOL! I just noticed that now. Why would you apologize? I'm not ashamed to have accurate multiplication skills. I didn't say it was practically the equivalent of shooting 54% 2s. That's a separate discussion. I only said it was statistically equivalent. You actually found that interesting enough to use as your signature? Whatever makes you happy...

i found the depths that you would go to to defend something that is clearly a negative (in the crawford thread) absolutely hilarious.
The depths that I would go? You mean four sentences? You have a generous sense of humor I guess. That's a good quality

Also, I'll say this again and again, but Bonn is absolutely right. I'd rather Craw shoot threes than deep twos. I wish he drove more, but I have no problem with his 3s, its his lack of midrange consistancy that kills him.
¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
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3/31/2005  10:51 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
"Does shooting 36% 3s really hurt the team? Statistically, it's the same as shooting 54% 2s." - Bonn1997 (sorry dude but this is CLASSIC)
LOL! I just noticed that now. Why would you apologize? I'm not ashamed to have accurate multiplication skills. I didn't say it was practically the equivalent of shooting 54% 2s. That's a separate discussion. I only said it was statistically equivalent. You actually found that interesting enough to use as your signature? Whatever makes you happy...

i found the depths that you would go to to defend something that is clearly a negative (in the crawford thread) absolutely hilarious.
The depths that I would go? You mean four sentences? You have a generous sense of humor I guess. That's a good quality

Also, I'll say this again and again, but Bonn is absolutely right.
That's why it's hilarious that DJ finds the quote so interesting.
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i want to hear the fans views on this team after the last 4 games
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