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Aftre all this trade talk, we''l end up trading out
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fishmike
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3/31/2005  2:06 PM
most people here havent said to fire him... I havent. I will give him this offseason, but it better be good because what he's done so far is pretty lame.

By the way.. .whats this future you speak of? How do we have a better future than any other team in the NBA?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Cookdcokehop
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3/31/2005  2:14 PM
If every think goes as planned in the off season. The knicks will be top 5 in the east. I have faith in Isiah and i know he's gonna improve this team. He's gonna improve thru the draft and if he doesnt im sure he will trade for "young and athletic" player to add to our roster. The biggest mistake I think he made was Jamal Crawford.I didnt know he was this bad. He gets killed on defense. JC is my boy but even he admits he is confused out there. Gettin the Garden to UH and AH aint gonna get us wins.But unlike most i got patience and Hopefully JC improves. You gotta have faith!
Bonn1997
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3/31/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Utah has 3 frontcourt players better than any one of ours.
And we have at least 3 backcourt players better than any of theirs (Stephon, Jamal, and Ariza). Penny when healthy is even better than anyone in their backcourt.
fishmike
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3/31/2005  2:39 PM
Raja Bell and Harpring are better then ARiza and Crawford. Both have actually played winning basketball in their career on top of that.

Spare me the long drawn out pseudo-statistical breakdown documenting the potential of Crawford and Ariza over those 2 guys.

Look at it anyway you want. If I have to start at square 1 I'm taking what Utah has 8 days a week. After all.. you can always trade scrubs for good PGs... look at MArbury and Baron Davis... Payton and Dre Miller to name a few. Guys like Kirilenko dont get traded and he's the only player on both teams a GM would actually elect to build around.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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3/31/2005  2:51 PM
[/quote]

we're not talking about THIS season dude...we're talking about the future prospects of both teams getting better...Utah is in a much more favorable position to get better quicker than the Knicks are for all the reasons stated above.
[/quote]

I understand that. I just happen to disagree with the theory. I think the Knicks and Jazz are both in bad spots for different reasons. You rate thier talent higher than I do, that's all. I think there is one bonda fide player who will continue to improve on that team. Plus they are in the process of adding salary to their payroll with guys in the beginning of contracts while all things being equal are a position to jettison salary in the next two years. To me the same problems face Utah this off season, getting superstars agreeing to come.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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3/31/2005  3:00 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Raja Bell and Harpring are better then ARiza and Crawford. Both have actually played winning basketball in their career on top of that.

Spare me the long drawn out pseudo-statistical breakdown documenting the potential of Crawford and Ariza over those 2 guys.
Raja Bell better than someone? I can rest assure knowing this statement has never ever been posted anywhere else in the known universe.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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3/31/2005  3:17 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

Raja Bell and Harpring are better then ARiza and Crawford. Both have actually played winning basketball in their career on top of that.

Spare me the long drawn out pseudo-statistical breakdown documenting the potential of Crawford and Ariza over those 2 guys.
Raja Bell better than someone? I can rest assure knowing this statement has never ever been posted anywhere else in the known universe.
yea... and we need more guys like this. Our defense is joke, every night. I like Crawford and Marbury but they givith and the taketh away. We need some guys like Raja Bell, Ira Newble, Earl Watson, hell... John Starks.

Isiah has upgraded the talent over all, but he's counteracted that with ZERO balance and ZERO identity. We dont really play defense as a team and we arent explosive, we dont dominate on the boards, some days we are uptempo, other days we are half court.

Thats pretty lame considering he traded for this whole roster. But I'm sure he will fix everything this offseason.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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3/31/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

Raja Bell and Harpring are better then ARiza and Crawford. Both have actually played winning basketball in their career on top of that.

Spare me the long drawn out pseudo-statistical breakdown documenting the potential of Crawford and Ariza over those 2 guys.
Raja Bell better than someone? I can rest assure knowing this statement has never ever been posted anywhere else in the known universe.
I don't know how Harpring became a backcourt member; so, I'll ignore that part of Fish's comment. I agree with you (Pharezone) about Raja Bell.
I couldn't care less about the statistical comparisons either, Fish. We agree on that matter at least.
crzymdups
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3/31/2005  3:31 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

Raja Bell and Harpring are better then ARiza and Crawford. Both have actually played winning basketball in their career on top of that.

Spare me the long drawn out pseudo-statistical breakdown documenting the potential of Crawford and Ariza over those 2 guys.
Raja Bell better than someone? I can rest assure knowing this statement has never ever been posted anywhere else in the known universe.
yea... and we need more guys like this. Our defense is joke, every night. I like Crawford and Marbury but they givith and the taketh away. We need some guys like Raja Bell, Ira Newble, Earl Watson, hell... John Starks.

Isiah has upgraded the talent over all, but he's counteracted that with ZERO balance and ZERO identity. We dont really play defense as a team and we arent explosive, we dont dominate on the boards, some days we are uptempo, other days we are half court.

Thats pretty lame considering he traded for this whole roster. But I'm sure he will fix everything this offseason.

Fish, I don't think that's totally fair. He's assembled a team that plays a fantastic offensive game and a wretched defensive one. And while it's not good enough, it's at least entertaining while the team loses to get in position for an important draft in a deep draft year.

Ariza is far better defensively than either Bell or Harpring. He needs to get stronger, but he can probably become a Posey-level player, who is underrated. He's no Pippen, but he's a core player.

Jamal's defense is bad. There's no way around that. I'd love to draft a long, rangy two guard who can slash and play D.

I think a ton of our defensive problems can be solved by a shotblocker who will challenge shots, alter shots and make slashing guards think twice. I loved the brief Dikembe Renaissance we had.

¿ △ ?
djsunyc
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3/31/2005  3:43 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

He's assembled a team that plays a fantastic offensive game and a wretched defensive one.

our offensive game is pretty much watching steph do his thing and getting assists of his double teams. we don't go through the post, we don't run and gun, we play half court pretty much with the ball in steph's hands. it's not a "FANTASTIC" offensive game. we have better scorers than in the past but it's plays all off of marbury getting doubled.
fishmike
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3/31/2005  3:45 PM
hate to burst your bubble but we are NOT a fantastic offensive team. We are 14th in total points scored.
Thats dead smack middle of the road. Again it comes down to style of play. We are actually around #10 in the league in FG%. So if you shoot a high % you have to find ways to get a lot of shots. We dont do that well either. Sometimes its half court, other times its run.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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3/31/2005  4:01 PM
Hey Fish, that's not fair. You can't blame Isiah for Marbury and Jamal not playing defense or the team not focusing on playing defense. I hate to say this because I really like the guy but that falls under the head coach and his staff. I mean Mike Fratello got the Grizzlies into playing strong defense. Van Gundy got the Rockets to play defense. I think Isiah needs to bring in a superior coaching staff including head coach. I can't really blame a GM when the whole team lack defensive intensity, that's a coach's job. I will blame him for giving Wilkens a outright contract though. To meet that is one of his biggest mistakes.

[Edited by - Pharzeone on 03/31/2005 16:04:31]
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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3/31/2005  4:25 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Hey Fish, that's not fair. You can't blame Isiah for Marbury and Jamal not playing defense or the team not focusing on playing defense. I hate to say this because I really like the guy but that falls under the head coach and his staff. I mean Mike Fratello got the Grizzlies into playing strong defense. Van Gundy got the Rockets to play defense. I think Isiah needs to bring in a superior coaching staff including head coach. I can't really blame a GM when the whole team lack defensive intensity, that's a coach's job. I will blame him for giving Wilkens a outright contract though. To meet that is one of his biggest mistakes.

[Edited by - Pharzeone on 03/31/2005 16:04:31]
no offense, but I'm so sick of people telling me criticizing Isiah isnt fair. This is no different from the McDyess situation. When McDyess got hurt and missed the whole year it was 100% fair to criticize LAyden for bringing in a player that came of multiple knee surguries and hadnt played for 2 years.

When Isiah brings in a core of players that dont and never have played a lick of defense its absolutely fair to blame him when the team's defense is a joke. Marbury, Crawford, TT, Mo Taylot, Baker, Moochie, Penny... none of these guys have every played D in their careers.

Whos to blame?

Nevermind... I forgot. Allan Houston.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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3/31/2005  4:34 PM
if we had a shot blocking center...

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

But if we only had a shot blocking center.

Would steph's defense be that bad? Would we even notice Kurt getting beat off the dribble?

if we only had an effing shot blocking center...ISIAH GET US THAT CENTER!!!
all kool aid all the time.
TMS
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3/31/2005  5:00 PM
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

i hear that phrase used all the time on forums.

I take it some of you have aunts that are walking around with pen!ses.

[Edited by - TMS on 03/31/2005 17:01:04]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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3/31/2005  5:38 PM
I guess I am guilty because I wanted Marbury too. I won't lie, I am sorry but I can't imagine Eisley and Ward still running the team. Spoon and Anderson, I guess I wanted them gone too. I lost my voice cursing out Anderson so many times. I don't understand why these guys seem to play better at home than on the road. I think a coach type of issue. So I do blame Isiah partly for giving Wilkens a multiple year deal rather than elevating an assistant or coaching the team himself. And getting a coach last season. What bothers me is that I see post that kills Isiah but find a way to praise Herb. I think it will be fair to judge Isiah after this off season for everything. Especially, if he has come to conclusion that Houston will never contribute to this team.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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3/31/2005  5:54 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

if we had a shot blocking center...

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

But if we only had a shot blocking center.

Would steph's defense be that bad? Would we even notice Kurt getting beat off the dribble?

if we only had an effing shot blocking center...ISIAH GET US THAT CENTER!!!


No problem. we will win 2nd place draft lottery and take Marvin Williams Johan Petro with the kT pick from Orlando and Rashad mccants will fall to 29

then we can go

C- Petro 7-1 240
PF M Williams 6-9 235
SF Tim Thomas 6-10 245
G McCants 6-4 210
G Marbury 6-2 200 :<)



all problems solved:>)
RIP Crushalot&#128542;
Clean
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3/31/2005  6:28 PM
I find it funny how most of you guys said that you could stand to rebuild but you expect zeke to spin crap into gold in 1 season. That right there blows away all your creditability.
Bonn1997
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3/31/2005  8:16 PM
Posted by Clean:

I find it funny how most of you guys said that you could stand to rebuild but you expect zeke to spin crap into gold in 1 season. That right there blows away all your creditability.
yup
djsunyc
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3/31/2005  8:21 PM
Posted by Clean:

I find it funny how most of you guys said that you could stand to rebuild but you expect zeke to spin crap into gold in 1 season. That right there blows away all your creditability.

spinning crap into gold in 1 season was not expected.

but spinning crap into 3 day old urine was not expected either.
Aftre all this trade talk, we''l end up trading out

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