Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by TMS:

hey BRIGGS, can't you just bump 1 of your old threads discussing the same old stuff rather than start up a new one so that everyone has to repeat everything they said on the other threads in response?

Dude, I don't get why people attack Briggs so much. He prolly knows bball more than ohhh, 95% of us (Me being in that 95%) and everything he says is intelligent and makes sense. I don't get why you'd attack anybody for that matter, but if you're gonna do it, at least go for someone who makes no sense whatsoever and I can name plenty.

i'm not attacking BRIGGS...calm down young buck...i just would much rather he bump an old thread that he said pretty much the exact same things so we can follow along w/the comments other posters have chimed in with...what's wrong with that? would you like to see me post a separate thread talking about the same exact topic over & over again? other posters get bashed for doing that all the time...why does BRIGGS get an exception just because as i've stated plenty of times before i consider him to be a very knowledgeable poster on this forum?

I have the utmost faith that he will make the right move on draft day and the Knicks will be in a much better situation then they were before. I mean geez, some people are starting to sound like they are Red Sox fans and thats just sad. Getting guys like Marbury, Crawford, Malik, Ariza were the beginnings of some nice pieces that Isiah has in store for this Knicks team and I think draft day will come and no matter which way the Knicks will end up with a solid big man to throw out on the court with Steph and co.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by gunsnewing:

that isnt fair none of those teams saw what phoenix saw in Amare. but i agree just like trading ewing and giving H20 100mil trading nene and camby for dice was a major turning for the worst

no one saw Amare. Phoenix found him first and hid him. Layden had him scheduled for a workout, but he cancelled it.

the 2002 draft was really the last chance we had to salvage this team before undergoing a massive rebuilding. now, we're in a massive rebuilding.

No way, can I give Layden a break on this. The truth already came out in ESPN magazine like 2 years ago. Layden had put so much stock in landing Ming, he didn't bother to really scout most of those guys. To this day, no one for sure knows why Layden really thought he was going to win that lottery. That team wasn't that bad. I almost believe those nuts at NY Sporting News that Stern told Layden something which he believed. No one can be that foolharded. Did you see him when the Knicks got the 7th pick, he look like a ghost.
He wasn't going to be able to draft his second choice Jay Williams, so he panic and went with the most sure thing he could think of.
As far as Amare goes, that kid was begging teams to give him a look, no scouts visited. Just look at that Real Sports piece on HBO. And what about Butler, Wilcox, and others.

Posted by fishmike:

LAyden tried to aquire Chris Bosh, Yao Ming and Andre Miller. Smart as nothing to do with it. Making good decisions and having forsight has everything to do with it.

Per Grunwald, Knicks could have had Bosh, Layden couldn't close the deal. Per Colangelo, Layden was trying to land Marbury or J-Kidd for like 3 years but couldn't pull it off. If you believe rumor, Isiah just pick up where Layden left off with Colangelo and got Marbury. My biggest knock on Layden wasn't his forsight but his inability to get something done that he had his mind set on. When he fails to close the deal on his big prize, he panics and settles.

When we think about the salary and Isiah Thomas. Is if fair to put Houston & S.Anderson in the equation. Thats 24.8million this season they have paid them together. Which Isiah Thomas really has had nothing to do with. You subtract that from the 104.6 salary and thats 79.8million that Isiah Thomas has brought upon us. Its still bad but its more fair. Houston didn't have these serious injury problems when Isiah came in and made the Marbury trade so he had Houston part of the equation. And if he was healthy this team would be winning the Atlantic right now.

Isiah traded picks for Marbury who was 26-27 at the time. So how does that equat to trading our lottery pick for Finley(33, 34next yr) or Kwame Brown who has the value of a mid first rd pick right now??? He offerd Muhammad for Eddie Curry in the beginning of the season. So far Isiah has only traded draft picks for proven youth.

Layden traded picks for Jax, Othella Harrington, And Dice after he missed like 2 full seasons with injury. I really have no idea what Isiah is gonna do this summer. But after this season and all the hits he is taken. Imma bet its not gonna be one of those moves.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Rich:

I used to lurk on that Johnny B. site.

In fairness, Briggs was on Amare before the draft.

wow you're right! I remember thinking why does this guy want this amare guy! u serious?! that was Briggs! hahaha

madddd props to him for that one.. WOW!!

well, considering just about every week briggs comes out with, the next great player out of college thread, he will eventually hit on a winner.

They are catching onto you Briggs.

Bonn,

Isiah has made a hundred moves and added an entire team.
He hired a coach. He fired a coach.

When can we make a meaningful judgement in your opinion? When he makes another hundred moves and hires and fires another coach?

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by bigpimpin:

Bonn,

Isiah has made a hundred moves and added an entire team.
He hired a coach. He fired a coach.

When can we make a meaningful judgement in your opinion? When he makes another hundred moves and hires and fires another coach?

What coach was there to hire at the time Chaney was let go, unless you wanted Chaney stay on. The big name coaches they move around in 2003 was on Layden's watch. I will continue to say this but i refuse to judge this guy until he is given a level playing field. I don't care how much money he adds or subtracts while Houston is still a member of this team. Maybe I live in a different world but it is not common for someone to take up more than a 1/4 of your budget and not even be part of any consideration whether good or bad. I forgot about Anderson, LOL, how many of you guys wanted to keep Anderson. I don't know what more he could have done to be honest. Getting Marbury was a no brainer. Especially with how it turned out, McDyess is playing ok but who cares, there's no more talk of Lampe being something, Vuljanic is still overseas, the Knicks's pick landed the Jazz Kirk Synder. Hell if Isiah just lets Penny comes off the books, he will still make out on that deal. Van Horn, TT deal looks great for the Knicks right now. Despite what some people think TT value is higher than Van Horn's and the Knicks still got 2 picks out of the deal. Only thing I can fault him for is essentially trading Spoon for Taylor. And I won't even mentioned the Crawford trade because you can have all those players back if you want them. Please include the fact that your ownership problems that this guy probably now faces on a day to day basis.

Pharezone, I think you said it absolutely perfect... I couldn't have typed it better myself.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by bigpimpin:

Bonn,

Isiah has made a hundred moves and added an entire team.
He hired a coach. He fired a coach.

When can we make a meaningful judgement in your opinion? When he makes another hundred moves and hires and fires another coach?

What coach was there to hire at the time Chaney was let go, unless you wanted Chaney stay on. The big name coaches they move around in 2003 was on Layden's watch. I will continue to say this but i refuse to judge this guy until he is given a level playing field. I don't care how much money he adds or subtracts while Houston is still a member of this team. Maybe I live in a different world but it is not common for someone to take up more than a 1/4 of your budget and not even be part of any consideration whether good or bad. I forgot about Anderson, LOL, how many of you guys wanted to keep Anderson. I don't know what more he could have done to be honest. Getting Marbury was a no brainer. Especially with how it turned out, McDyess is playing ok but who cares, there's no more talk of Lampe being something, Vuljanic is still overseas, the Knicks's pick landed the Jazz Kirk Synder. Hell if Isiah just lets Penny comes off the books, he will still make out on that deal. Van Horn, TT deal looks great for the Knicks right now. Despite what some people think TT value is higher than Van Horn's and the Knicks still got 2 picks out of the deal. Only thing I can fault him for is essentially trading Spoon for Taylor. And I won't even mentioned the Crawford trade because you can have all those players back if you want them. Please include the fact that your ownership problems that this guy probably now faces on a day to day basis.

Pharzone, go back and read my post before you reply to me.

All I asked Bonn was how could he not have a judgement (one way or the other) towards Isiah Thomas.

He stated that he felt it was too early to reach any kind of meaningful judgement to which I replied because...Isiah has made alot of moves.
Then you have the audacity to come and reply to me as if you are "teaching" me or something.
Do me a favor and LEARN TO COMPREHEND. And I will say it again, until isiah builds a winning team then BRIGGS IS RIGHT!!!!!!

The keyword is winning.

Bonn stated that it's too early to have any kind of meaningful judgement so in theory,

by Bonn's opinion (the person you are defending), the statements you made are NOT MEANINGFUL! Now look at you.

But hold on, I'm not through with you yet.


[/quote]
What coach was there to hire at the time Chaney was let go, unless you wanted Chaney stay on.

First of all, the team Chaney coached OVERACHEIVED. Second of all, Isiah hired Lenny. Not me! So whose fault is it that Lenny team underacheived? Not mines! Also, there are alot of teams without BIG NAME coaches that are winning so what you are saying is...Isiah has to have a big name coach to win? Just to win more games than he lose. Unreal. He has to have everything perfect i guess to produce a winning season. If so, then I guess the field would be level in your opinion. But I have a question...Why didn't you give Layden that leeway of having to have a big name coach? Phil Jackson is a big name coach. He didn't win a title in his last two years of coaching!!!

The big name coaches they move around in 2003 was on Layden's watch.

Oh god...Maybe, just maybe the BIG NAME coaches have enough brains to understand what is going on. I could be wrong though

I will continue to say this but i refuse to judge this guy until he is given a level playing field.

Wake up, playing fields are NEVER level, Never.

I don't care how much money he adds or subtracts while Houston is still a member of this team. Maybe I live in a different world but it is not common for someone to take up more than a 1/4 of your budget and not even be part of any consideration whether good or bad.

Grant Hill wasn't playing with the Magic and they still went to the playoffs. And what Grant Hill brings, Allan doesn't. And we actually have more talent than that Magic team had

I forgot about Anderson, LOL, how many of you guys wanted to keep Anderson.

Oh God. When all else fails, a "shandon anderson" reference always works, right? Isiah disrespected the guy then bought him out. Should we give him GM of the year? You laugh at Shandon but alot of teams were interested in the guy.

I don't know what more he could have done to be honest. Getting Marbury was a no brainer.

Why was it a no-brainer? We are still losers.

Especially with how it turned out, McDyess is playing ok but who cares, there's no more talk of Lampe being something, Vuljanic is still overseas, the Knicks's pick landed the Jazz Kirk Synder.

So apparantly you are saying we would have been losers, in your opinion if we had these guys too right? Guess what? We are still losers. What's the difference? We have draft picks? We had them then! Expiring contracts? We had them then too! Young talent? We had that too!

Hell if Isiah just lets Penny comes off the books, he will still make out on that deal.


Phoenix made out. Wake up.

Van Horn, TT deal looks great for the Knicks right now. Despite what some people think TT value is higher than Van Horn's and the Knicks still got 2 picks out of the deal.


The Knicks are at the bottom. What looks so great? TT is playing good ball but guess what? When it would have counted the most. He wasn't. A rookie took his spot. But now that he is playing great...the deal looks great. Van Horn is playing great too NOW but the entire world know they BOTH suck!

Only thing I can fault him for is essentially trading Spoon for Taylor.

Why? I thought you just said you didn't care how much more money on contracts he brought in? Contradicting yourself now

And I won't even mentioned the Crawford trade because you can have all those players back if you want them.

I am glad he got Crawford. Where did I say i wasn't? I posted a few days ago about how the kid can hold his own. Go find it and reply to it.

Please include the fact that your ownership problems that this guy probably now faces on a day to day basis.

Geez. I'm sure glad that Dolan wasn't the owner when Layden was GM cause then Layden would have ahd an excuse too!
[/quote]



[Edited by - bigpimpin on 03/30/2005 20:11:07]

Posted by Bonn1997:

If you have the cliffnotes and half the print isn't in bold, I'll reply to your last message bigP

Regarding the other message, any GM needs at least 3 years. Two years ago Jerry Wests' 28 win Memphis team and Dumars' 30 win Piston teams would have looked like complete failures and all the money they had taken back (which admittedly was less than the Knicks) had resulted in fewer wins too.

you mean that piston's team the year AFTER they traded their best player? or that memphis team was in the worst state a franchise could be in? i wonder how they turned that around so quickly, do you think it had ANYTHING to do with the fact that they were under the cap or had a bunch of players making jack and could easily be moved?

to quote one of my favorite motown groups ever in the 4 tops:

"it's the same old song, but with a different beat since you been gone..."

so far, it's true...