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Crawford--56mm$mistake?
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Ira
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3/28/2005  6:18 AM
He's not great and he's not terrible. His contract is reasonable for what he brings - a 6th man who can play two positions reasonably well and who can start when your point or two is out.
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fishmike
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3/28/2005  8:48 AM
This was a gathering talent trade/signing. We needed young guys, atlhetic guys and some playmakers. Crawford was and is a worthy gamble. Aside from his upside as a ball player he's a great guy and the coaches love his work ethic. He's very good in uptempo games as well. I'm happy we have him. I dont think I would ever call him a mistake, even if he didnt work out or is eventually traded. Adding talented 24 year old players with reasonable deals will never be a mistake to me.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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3/28/2005  9:33 AM
Posted by fishmike:

This was a gathering talent trade/signing. We needed young guys, atlhetic guys and some playmakers. Crawford was and is a worthy gamble. Aside from his upside as a ball player he's a great guy and the coaches love his work ethic. He's very good in uptempo games as well. I'm happy we have him. I dont think I would ever call him a mistake, even if he didnt work out or is eventually traded. Adding talented 24 year old players with reasonable deals will never be a mistake to me.


56MM$ isnt a gamble, its is a major contract. A reasonable contract is one that pays 3-4mm for 3-4 years. I would say that Crawford needs to really work on honing his skills and strengthening his body, a lot. I garee with that Post article as well. Crawford cares more about a fancy move or dribble,a 300footer than just playing pure basketball. If he concentrated on playing basketball and getting his body much stronger, maybe he can earn his contract. right now, hes one happy fella, making a lot of green, doing commercials with Jay Z, throwing the ball off the backboard to himself. You know what would happen if he did that with a Bobby knight, a Tom Izzo, a Jim Calhoun? His arse would be on the bench. Thats not basketball. he needs to be more mobile, he needs to move in from that 3pt line and accept more contact by taking the ball inside and moving his shooting to the medium range jumper. If you can hit your 1st or 2nd 3 fine, but if not--MOVE inside to 16 feet. Ive laid off Craw this year, but his inconsistency and pu$$Y like demeanor has been a major reason why we sck.
RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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3/28/2005  9:44 AM
I agree with absolutely everything you said Briggs. except unfortunately I don' think he has a mid range game. Its obvious he never worked on it. He's going to have to work on it first otherwise he'll still shoot brick after brick.
Marv
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3/28/2005  9:52 AM
Yeah that's a great post Briggs. i do still have hope for the guy. i think Rip should be a model for Craw - maybe that's partly why you brought up Calhoun. Craw's got a lot of work to do, Hinrich is a huge upgrade over him for Chicago. Craw has a fancy-pants approach instead of a Rip-like get-it-done with hard work, efficiency and smarts approach.
diderotn
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3/28/2005  10:17 AM
Crawf is our $56 million mistake only because of Houston's prior $100 million gimpy knees...
The true Knickabocker..........
Nalod
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3/28/2005  10:27 AM
I am ok with Craw, and am glad they are experimenting with him and marbs.

It would have been a far larger disaster if we did not him to fall back on to start in place of Allan.

Craw must develope in time. This year if he learned and will improve his shot selection, then it has been worth it.
Nalod
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3/28/2005  10:33 AM


McAnts has all teh tools, but has a "gazyness" about him. This guy just ain't right in some areas.

If you want insconsistant play, then take on inconsistant players. This guy is not lotto, but at some level deserves a look.

What you saw was a great game.
crzymdups
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3/28/2005  10:53 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

This was a gathering talent trade/signing. We needed young guys, atlhetic guys and some playmakers. Crawford was and is a worthy gamble. Aside from his upside as a ball player he's a great guy and the coaches love his work ethic. He's very good in uptempo games as well. I'm happy we have him. I dont think I would ever call him a mistake, even if he didnt work out or is eventually traded. Adding talented 24 year old players with reasonable deals will never be a mistake to me.


56MM$ isnt a gamble, its is a major contract. A reasonable contract is one that pays 3-4mm for 3-4 years. I would say that Crawford needs to really work on honing his skills and strengthening his body, a lot. I garee with that Post article as well. Crawford cares more about a fancy move or dribble,a 300footer than just playing pure basketball. If he concentrated on playing basketball and getting his body much stronger, maybe he can earn his contract. right now, hes one happy fella, making a lot of green, doing commercials with Jay Z, throwing the ball off the backboard to himself. You know what would happen if he did that with a Bobby knight, a Tom Izzo, a Jim Calhoun? His arse would be on the bench. Thats not basketball. he needs to be more mobile, he needs to move in from that 3pt line and accept more contact by taking the ball inside and moving his shooting to the medium range jumper. If you can hit your 1st or 2nd 3 fine, but if not--MOVE inside to 16 feet. Ive laid off Craw this year, but his inconsistency and pu$$Y like demeanor has been a major reason why we sck.

I don't think you can blame Crawford for the team sucking when we've been starting career backups in the entire front court all season. Nazr is a backup. Kurt should be a backup. Tim Thomas should be a backup, and rarely started for Milwaukee teams that weren't very good. Frankly, Craw has the most potential to be a starter out of this sad group we've surrounded Marbury with.

And I like this whole notion that Marbury isn't a star. The best player he's played with in New York is Keith Van Horn. Let that sink in for a second. Van Horn was barely the fifth best player on the Nets that Jason Kidd "led" to the Finals. This team has severe talent issues. Jamal ups the talent level considerably and he came pretty cheap. I think Jamal can definitely become a Larry Hughes type player and watch how much money Larry Hughes gets this summer and then tell me Jamal doesn't have a reasonable deal.
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gunsnewing
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3/28/2005  10:55 AM
Posted by Nalod:



McAnts has all teh tools, but has a "gazyness" about him. This guy just ain't right in some areas.

If you want insconsistant play, then take on inconsistant players. This guy is not lotto, but at some level deserves a look.

What you saw was a great game.

i dont know man. He averages 16pts on 49% shooting(42% from 3) 3rebs & 3asists on a offensive juggernaut of a team in North Carolina that would beat some NBA teams! All that in only 26mins since the college game is shorter! he's got all the tools! that crossover and leaping abililty will be unstoppable in the nba! He's going to be an overlooked star because teams will pick the good bigmen first so he might fall right in our lap!..mark my words!


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/28/2005 11:00:46]
TMS
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3/28/2005  11:15 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I don't know, but to me this has been atleast a fairly sizeable bust. One of the big reasons we lose is because of MR inconsistent softie who hasn't taken any critiscm. Marbury has been the teams rock.

Can someone get in his grill and tell him to move around on the O and look for medium range Js and dribble drives? It kind of scks to have spent 56 MILLION $ and go into the offseason needing to again needing a two guard.
Maybe Rashad McCants makes sense for us? Atleast he can shoot and play D and dribble drive. he weighs a solid 210 pounds, not Crawford who soaking wet maybe weighs 180, not a rip hamilton or reggie miller 180, im talking lightweight 180


Maybe we draft a McCants. I dont even know anymore:>( Ive been pittsnoggled by our dr bizzaro roster.

you know BRIGGS, it irks me when you post things like this about a 25 year old player who just last year you were gushing about as having a big upside & just coming into his own, & after just 1 year here you're pronouncing him as a bust...

you did the same thing w/Sweetney when he was drafted, gushing about his upside potential & saying how he was an excellent pick, & just recently practically calling him a reserve PF at best after a year & a half of watching him play...yet you yourself get on people for giving up on a young player too early.

people respect your opinions on this board, & for the most part, so do i...but i have to say, sometimes you're guilty of being just as wishy washy as many of those you criticize at times...no offense but it's true.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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3/28/2005  11:17 AM
Posted by fishmike:

This was a gathering talent trade/signing. We needed young guys, atlhetic guys and some playmakers. Crawford was and is a worthy gamble. Aside from his upside as a ball player he's a great guy and the coaches love his work ethic. He's very good in uptempo games as well. I'm happy we have him. I dont think I would ever call him a mistake, even if he didnt work out or is eventually traded. Adding talented 24 year old players with reasonable deals will never be a mistake to me.

agreed 100% fish...i for one am completely willing to give this guy more than just 1 year to see if he can grow into the player just about everyone on this board thought he could be when Isiah was pursuing him last offseason...if he has to be traded as a piece to get a better player, i'm totally fine with that as well, but to give up him & say he's a bust at this point is pretty ridiculous imho.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Marv
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3/28/2005  11:24 AM
TMS,
Fair enough but would you also agree that he's got some pretty serious flaws in his game and it should be taken as a pretty important priority for this franchise to address them and try to fix them?
TMS
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3/28/2005  11:29 AM
i completely agree w/that Marv...i've criticized JC many times for his bad shot selection & lack of D & fundamentals too...i'm just saying i don't give up on him & say he's a bust after just 1 year when i knew very well what we were getting when he came here...we can't expect him to become a totally different player in the span of 1 year...he'll need some more coaching & working into this system, & like you said, his flaws in his game will need to be addressed as a priority in the offseason.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
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3/28/2005  11:31 AM
Posted by Marv:

TMS,
Fair enough but would you also agree that he's got some pretty serious flaws in his game and it should be taken as a pretty important priority for this franchise to address them and try to fix them?

definitely agree with that. and so far they haven't. he's the same player he was at the start of the season launching way too many 3's, no mid-range game and no defense. Maybe he is what he is. That is why I rather have him be our 6th man until he proves himself so that we're not a losing to mediocre team his whole stint in New York.

I'm definitely not going to get my hopes up and say "they better get in his head or else" when they've problably tried but didn't get through. He clearly hasn't figured it out on his own and I don't know if he has the mid-range game to do so. Until then get a real SG and make him the combo guard off the bench!
gunsnewing
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3/28/2005  11:35 AM
Posted by TMS:

i completely agree w/that Marv...i've criticized JC many times for his bad shot selection & lack of D & fundamentals too...i'm just saying i don't give up on him & say he's a bust after just 1 year when i knew very well what we were getting when he came here...we can't expect him to become a totally different player in the span of 1 year...he'll need some more coaching & working into this system, & like you said, his flaws in his game will need to be addressed as a priority in the offseason.

well then we can all agree with what I've been saying for months now...He should be our combo guard off the bench until then while we get a real SG to start. unless you want to have another 30win season with no defense or shooting with crawford(all 6'5 180LBS of him) as our start SG.

Sometimes coaches can't work miracles. it depends on the player. maybe he is what he is. But one thing the organization can do to keep him from hurting the team is find a replacement and bench him until he does prove himself.

I really dont feel like praying everyday that he improves for the entire length of his contract which goes through 2011. 2011 is too far away!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/28/2005 11:37:51]
BRIGGS
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3/28/2005  12:18 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BRIGGS:

I don't know, but to me this has been atleast a fairly sizeable bust. One of the big reasons we lose is because of MR inconsistent softie who hasn't taken any critiscm. Marbury has been the teams rock.

Can someone get in his grill and tell him to move around on the O and look for medium range Js and dribble drives? It kind of scks to have spent 56 MILLION $ and go into the offseason needing to again needing a two guard.
Maybe Rashad McCants makes sense for us? Atleast he can shoot and play D and dribble drive. he weighs a solid 210 pounds, not Crawford who soaking wet maybe weighs 180, not a rip hamilton or reggie miller 180, im talking lightweight 180


Maybe we draft a McCants. I dont even know anymore:>( Ive been pittsnoggled by our dr bizzaro roster.

you know BRIGGS, it irks me when you post things like this about a 25 year old player who just last year you were gushing about as having a big upside & just coming into his own, & after just 1 year here you're pronouncing him as a bust...

you did the same thing w/Sweetney when he was drafted, gushing about his upside potential & saying how he was an excellent pick, & just recently practically calling him a reserve PF at best after a year & a half of watching him play...yet you yourself get on people for giving up on a young player too early.

people respect your opinions on this board, & for the most part, so do i...but i have to say, sometimes you're guilty of being just as wishy washy as many of those you criticize at times...no offense but it's true.


lets not go overboard there my man. I never said that craw was worth 56mm, actually I thought his *upside* and his primary value to me was @ PG. And I think Im atleast in the ballpark there. He's a bit of a p$$Y, he shies from contact. Did I use the word bust? I think I said right now he's an expensive dissapointment, he's undiscplined and that he needs to get much stronger and hone his skills-mainly his medium range game and to stop the showboating stuff.

and what's wrong with wanting Mike Sweetney as a bench player who gets 24-26 minutes? doesnt it seem like thats his best position? he needs to lose weight as well. if i said lets trade mike sweetney when we had the chance to get Curry, thats darn straight. Mike's a good player and a solid pick that year, but we arent married to him.


I think at this point in the season, its fair to express dissapointment in Crawford and we can see why other teams wouldnt overpay.
RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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3/28/2005  12:25 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BRIGGS:

I don't know, but to me this has been atleast a fairly sizeable bust. One of the big reasons we lose is because of MR inconsistent softie who hasn't taken any critiscm. Marbury has been the teams rock.

Can someone get in his grill and tell him to move around on the O and look for medium range Js and dribble drives? It kind of scks to have spent 56 MILLION $ and go into the offseason needing to again needing a two guard.
Maybe Rashad McCants makes sense for us? Atleast he can shoot and play D and dribble drive. he weighs a solid 210 pounds, not Crawford who soaking wet maybe weighs 180, not a rip hamilton or reggie miller 180, im talking lightweight 180


Maybe we draft a McCants. I dont even know anymore:>( Ive been pittsnoggled by our dr bizzaro roster.

you know BRIGGS, it irks me when you post things like this about a 25 year old player who just last year you were gushing about as having a big upside & just coming into his own, & after just 1 year here you're pronouncing him as a bust...

you did the same thing w/Sweetney when he was drafted, gushing about his upside potential & saying how he was an excellent pick, & just recently practically calling him a reserve PF at best after a year & a half of watching him play...yet you yourself get on people for giving up on a young player too early.

people respect your opinions on this board, & for the most part, so do i...but i have to say, sometimes you're guilty of being just as wishy washy as many of those you criticize at times...no offense but it's true.


lets not go overboard there my man. I never said that craw was worth 56mm, actually I thought his *upside* and his primary value to me was @ PG. And I think Im atleast in the ballpark there. He's a bit of a p$$Y, he shies from contact. Did I use the word bust? I think I said right now he's an expensive dissapointment, he's undiscplined and that he needs to get much stronger and hone his skills-mainly his medium range game and to stop the showboating stuff.

and what's wrong with wanting Mike Sweetney as a bench player who gets 24-26 minutes? doesnt it seem like thats his best position? he needs to lose weight as well. if i said lets trade mike sweetney when we had the chance to get Curry, thats darn straight. Mike's a good player and a solid pick that year, but we arent married to him.


I think at this point in the season, its fair to express dissapointment in Crawford and we can see why other teams wouldnt overpay.

I agree with your stance on Crawford. He's not a bust yet but certainly a major disappointed since he didn't improve at all after this entire season.

I don't agree totally with your Sweetney assestment though. Maybe on a good team Sweetney is a 25min a game player but on this team with the Kurt Thomas as a starter he should be getting a lot of minutes! and he would if Kurt didn't demand to be a starter and get major minutes and if the organzition didn't overrate him so much.
fishmike
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3/28/2005  12:31 PM
I would say Jamal has been as much a part of our success as our failure this year. How many 3's does he take in the last 3-4 seconds of the 24? I would bet at least a third.

The reason I call it a gamble is because he's a guy you can move easily if he doesnt fit. I'm wrong... thats not a gamble at all. He's an asset at this point. Det signing McDyess and NJ signing Zo, now those are gambles. Sure there's upside, but if they bust your stuck with them
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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3/28/2005  1:02 PM
the funny thing is, I keep reading we should build through the draft, but reading your posts for the season, you guys have the patience of all knick fans...NONE.

How long has crawford been a knick? How much does he get paid? How different is he now than from the beginning of the season? Where is Houston, who was supposed to be starting and craw was to be brought along slowly?

Strange this board become has.

But I've learned how to read it...after wins, it's all good, after losses everyone must go.

Atleast we are consistent...err, well, you guys are.

Crawford has been more than worth the money...he's won games by himself. and to my memory, he's only maybe lost one game...but the garden is buzzing...

Houston's injury kills any pre-season predictions we may have had, but let's not go bashing players because we are all bored on a rainy day.

He averaged 17 points a game. He's 25 for pete's sake.

Sorry, i keep forgetting that this is how you guys are and it's just a healthy debate, but to start attacking Crawford is absurd.

I can't wait until we start bashing Ariza for not having an outside shot. (he's 20)
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