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Top 20 picks from what I know and what I can assimilate
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VDesai
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3/28/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by VDesai:

But the Wild card is the abundance of 6'10+ talented Euros who will really make or break the draft.

I disagree. I don't think there are any impact foreigners like a Dirk, Gasol, Peja, Yao, Nene, ginobili this year. But I would love to draft one and let him develope after we draft a sure thing with our lottery pick. Scouting reports this year on foreigners are just not as overwhelming as previous years.

That's what I'm saying...you can't tell whether they are impact or not, so its hit or miss. I wonder about how many of them stay in the draft. If Martynas, Petro, Splitter, Vazquez, Alexandrov are definites, and you add some of the guys who have put their names in the ring but then pulled them out before, like Kosta Perovic, Peja Samardski and others there will be a decent number. Honestly you never know who's gonna be the man though. People criticized Don Nelson for trading Tractor Traylor to get Dirk, Ginobli was a 2nd rounder, Peja was a mid first. If one or two of the guys from this year hit, it will be a success.
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Caseloads
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3/28/2005  3:32 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by VDesai:

But the Wild card is the abundance of 6'10+ talented Euros who will really make or break the draft.

I disagree. I don't think there are any impact foreigners like a Dirk, Gasol, Peja, Yao, Nene, ginobili this year. But I would love to draft one and let him develope after we draft a sure thing with our lottery pick. Scouting reports this year on foreigners are just not as overwhelming as previous years.
the foreigners are not going to be that great this year in my opinion - just from the hype machine - but Ford hasnt taken his annual trip to Europe that usually gets all the NBA GMs ready to bust a nut.

gunsnewing - i do not think that McCants is going to be a Wade-like star or anything in the NBA. Role player, maybe - but there are so many SG prospects out there that have good game and legit size. NBA does not like undersized players unless they have tremendous heart and talent - i just dont think McCants does. I've watched him for the past few years - there's something not right about him - maybe his demeanor or whatever else - but i think he has bad karma. Plus there was all that talk about his "bad attitude" - which who knows - but his on court mannerisms seem off. And Joe Forte was not a tweener, just a short SG like McCants is, who can score, dish, rebound like McCants does. What, you think Forte made the All-American team just being an undersized jump shooter? He had several "run-ins" after being drafted and it went downhill from there. I dont think he's even playing ball anymore.

and to VDesai - Gomes last year showcased more of his all around game than this year - that had many people comparing him to Pippen - i think he is versatile as a SF. I feel that Granger plays in the Post more, similar to Fizer.

I just dont know about Bogut. I've been following the guy for a few years, before he even came to Utah. He's mobile, but i'm just not sure if he's a Franchise player. You think he's going to have a career like Ewing, Hakeem, David Robinson, Sabonis, Jermaine O'neal? Those guys are Franchise Centers - I didnt even mention Duncan or Shaq... If you are right, I'll be surprised.

I dont know if Frye is going to be better than Bogut, but I just think Bogut might not be the player we think he'll be. He might end up like Chris Mihm or something. I think Frye is going to be like Camby - with the right coaching.
Caseloads
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3/28/2005  3:34 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by VDesai:

But the Wild card is the abundance of 6'10+ talented Euros who will really make or break the draft.

I disagree. I don't think there are any impact foreigners like a Dirk, Gasol, Peja, Yao, Nene, ginobili this year. But I would love to draft one and let him develope after we draft a sure thing with our lottery pick. Scouting reports this year on foreigners are just not as overwhelming as previous years.

That's what I'm saying...you can't tell whether they are impact or not, so its hit or miss. I wonder about how many of them stay in the draft. If Martynas, Petro, Splitter, Vazquez, Alexandrov are definites, and you add some of the guys who have put their names in the ring but then pulled them out before, like Kosta Perovic, Peja Samardski and others there will be a decent number. Honestly you never know who's gonna be the man though. People criticized Don Nelson for trading Tractor Traylor to get Dirk, Ginobli was a 2nd rounder, Peja was a mid first. If one or two of the guys from this year hit, it will be a success.
no euros from the past couple drafts have done anything in the NBA yet...
VDesai
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3/28/2005  3:41 PM
I watch a lot of Big East ball and have seen a good deal of Gomes. He has improved on the perimeter, but he still has a long way to go to be relied on out there. He's still a tweener in a lot of senses...maybe he turns out to be Glenn Robinson? Who knows. I like his fire and leadership, but I don't think he has a position.

Granger plays in the post, but he has a nice shot (shot a real good percentage on 3's this year) and a nice dribble. He can get up and down the court. He did a great job of creating for his teammates this year. I think he's a true SF with the toughness to play 4 if needed. He's a guy who got 2 blocks and 2 steals this year...he's more like a poor man's Marion to me.

As for Bogut- I saw him once last year, saw him in the Olympics and watched him several times this year. He has improved a lot over the last few years, to the point of where he basically impacts the game in every way. By the end of the year teams were scared of driving at him. He was altering tons of shots if not blocking them. His hands are rare IMO. He catches everything and rebounds just stick to his hands. His passing is amazing. He can play high post and control the game out there. And he's got a great shooting touch and the post fundamentals down. I don't feel that he's lanky...he's added a lot of strength and can still add strength. I feel like he's a surefire pro with franchise potential and on the downside is a Brad Miller type.

[Edited by - VDesai on 03/28/2005 15:42:46]
Caseloads
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3/28/2005  3:56 PM
Posted by VDesai:

I watch a lot of Big East ball and have seen a good deal of Gomes. He has improved on the perimeter, but he still has a long way to go to be relied on out there. He's still a tweener in a lot of senses...maybe he turns out to be Glenn Robinson? Who knows. I like his fire and leadership, but I don't think he has a position.

Granger plays in the post, but he has a nice shot (shot a real good percentage on 3's this year) and a nice dribble. He can get up and down the court. He did a great job of creating for his teammates this year. I think he's a true SF with the toughness to play 4 if needed. He's a guy who got 2 blocks and 2 steals this year...he's more like a poor man's Marion to me.

As for Bogut- I saw him once last year, saw him in the Olympics and watched him several times this year. He has improved a lot over the last few years, to the point of where he basically impacts the game in every way. By the end of the year teams were scared of driving at him. He was altering tons of shots if not blocking them. His hands are rare IMO. He catches everything and rebounds just stick to his hands. His passing is amazing. He can play high post and control the game out there. And he's got a great shooting touch and the post fundamentals down. I don't feel that he's lanky...he's added a lot of strength and can still add strength. I feel like he's a surefire pro with franchise potential and on the downside is a Brad Miller type.
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I dont think Gomes is going to do anything special. I dont think Granger is going to do anything special either. I dont think either will be the next pippen or even glenn robinson

how good do you think bogut will be his first year? Do you think he'll be Amare Stoudamire Rookie year good (tore KG a new one 38 pts in his rookie year)? Tim Duncan Rookie year good? Do you think Bogut's going to be Lebron good and turn around whatever scrub franchise drafts him? Or do you think he's going to pull a Kwame Brown and disappear into nothingness?
VDesai
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3/28/2005  11:46 PM
I think he can have an Amare type season. A better season than either Okafor or Howard are having right now. He might put a team like Golden St. in sudden contention.
Caseloads
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3/28/2005  11:51 PM
ESPN was talking tonight about how granger's stock has fallen
Caseloads
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3/29/2005  9:09 AM
this morning on cold pizza woody paige said what i have been saying - bogut might be #1 this year, but only because all the good college players are already in the NBA - imagine Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, anyone else in the NCAAs... i dont think bogut is better than those guys
nyk4ever
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3/29/2005  12:29 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

this morning on cold pizza woody paige said what i have been saying - bogut might be #1 this year, but only because all the good college players are already in the NBA - imagine Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, anyone else in the NCAAs... i dont think bogut is better than those guys

You serious? Not one of those guys and I mean ONE of them has the lowpost ability that Bogut has nor the passing skills nor the defensive prescence that he is. Bogut will not disappoint.
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VDesai
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3/29/2005  1:17 PM
Don't tell me you value Woody Paige's opinion now...

If Granger's stock is falling its only b/c New Mexico lost in rd.1 vs. Nova....
JUNKMEIN
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3/29/2005  5:17 PM
I just thought of a player that will be a great pickup for us during the second round if he declares himself elgible: Kevin Pittsnogle of West Virginia. After seeing him against Louisville the other day I came way thinking he's reminscent of one Bill Laimbeer. This dude can shoot the lights out and he can shoot with range. He's 6'11" 240 or so so he's definitely worth a look in the second round. Just a thought.
VDesai
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3/29/2005  5:20 PM
Pittsnogle is probably more likely the second coming of Brad Lohaus.
JUNKMEIN
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3/29/2005  5:25 PM
Brad Lohaus couldn't dream of shooting like Pittsnogle. Louisville would have lost that game if West Virginia had not become conservative in the last few mintues. They were up by 20 at one point.
VDesai
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3/29/2005  5:29 PM
Posted by JUNKMEIN:

Brad Lohaus couldn't dream of shooting like Pittsnogle. Louisville would have lost that game if West Virginia had not become conservative in the last few mintues. They were up by 20 at one point.

Brad Lohaus had to be a pretty damn good shooter to take such a one-dimensional game to the pros for many years. He was at or near 40% on 3's for several seasons. Pitts doesn't rebound, post up or defend well. He's a good player for the college game, but would benefit by staying in school and really working on the rest of his game in order to get drafted.
rojasmas
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3/29/2005  9:42 PM
Where is Lawrence Roberts from Miss State? The guy was a first team All-American as a junior a season ago and averaged 17 and 12 this year as a senior in a tough SEC. If he isn't one of the top 25 guys in the draft then someone is going to get a steal in the second round. I hope it is the Knicks. We need toughness and rebounding.
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BRIGGS
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4/15/2005  5:47 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

1. Marvin Williams F NC 6-9 230
2. Andrew Bogut C WF 7-1 245
3. Chris Paul PG WF 6-1 160
4. Deron Williams PG Ill 6-3 215
5. Rudy Gay SF CT 6-8 215
6. Hakim Warrick F syr 6-8 215
7 Fran Vazquez F ESP 6-10 235
8. Martynas Andriuskevicius C/PF 7-2 1/2 230
9. Chris Taft C/PF PITT 6-10 1/2 262
10.Gerald Greene SG HS 6-8 200
11. Adam Morrison SG GON 6-8 220
12. Sean May C/PF NC 6-8 260
13. Antoine Wright G TAM 6-7 215
14. Rashad McCants G NC 6-4 210
15 Johan Petro C/PF 7-1 240
16 Wayne Simien PF KU 6-8 255
17 Martell Webster GHS 6-7 235
18. Channing Frye C/PF 6-11 250
19 Tiago Splitter F 6-11 235
20. Monta Ellis SG HS 6-3 175

next 5 in case there are drop outs
21 Ray Felton PG NC 6-1 200
22. Danny Granger SF NMST 6-8 225
23 Joey Graham SF OKST 6-7 225
24 Ike Diogu PF ASU 6-8 250
25 Louis Williams G HS 6-2 175

let me put in an alteration as more information becomes available-but will go top 30.

1. Marvin Williams F 6-9 230
2 Andrew Bogut C/PF 7-1 245
3 Gerald Green SG 6-8 210
4 Chris Paul PG 6-0 170
5 Ray Felton PG 6-1 200
6 Andrea Bargnani F 7-0 225
7 Hakim Warrick F 6-8 220
8 Chris Taft C/PF 6-10 1/2 260
9 Deron Williams PG 6-3 210
10 Sean May C/PF 6-9 265
11 Tiago Splitter PF 6-11 245
12 Johan Petro C 7-0 240
13 Wayne Simien PF 6-8 255
14 Channing Frye C/PF6-11 250
15 Antonie Wright SG 6-7 210
16 Danny Granger SF 6-8 225
17 Jarret Jack PG 6-3 200
18 Martynas And C 7-3 230
19 Charlie Vill C/F 6-11 245
20 Rashad MCCants SG 6-4 210
21 Ike Diogu PF 6-8 255
22 Joey Graham SF 6-7 225
23 Martell Webster G 6-6 225
24 Kennedy Winston G 6-6 215
25 Fran Vazquez PF 6-10 230
26 Eric Williams C 6-9 290
27 Francisco Garcia G6-7 200
28 Louis Williams G 6-2 170
29 Ronnie Turriaf PF 6-10 245
30 Ryan Gomes F 6-8 240
RIP Crushalot😞
tomverve
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4/15/2005  7:31 PM
Why the precipitous dropoff for Vazquez?
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MaTT4281
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4/15/2005  7:36 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Why the precipitous dropoff for Vazquez?
Wouldn't be able to tell you. All I know is, from what I've heard, I am going to start praying that he drops that low AND that we can buy a pick around there.
BRIGGS
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4/15/2005  7:59 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Why the precipitous dropoff for Vazquez?

Every year, a so-called euro lottery pick drops to late firs round early second. right now the number 1 international prospect is the Italian PF Bargnani and number 2 is Splitter from everything that I have read. Martnas A, while being touted high in many draft mocks, isnt redy and I see a fall very much like Podolzine last year to 20-21. While it could be Petro and not Vazquez who takes the dump this year, I'm betting on Vazquez even though he is the more polished player, but I guy that I perceive as a "Chris Andersen" type pF, a guy who can really jump for his size, but doesnt have lottery basketball skills. Obviously a Sean May moves ahead of all the International prospects except the Italian, some of the guys I had on the mock arent going to be in the draft, or not likely to still declare, and some stock moved up and down. Also, there are other Euro prospects that could be round 1, but they are so obscure with suck little write up that I cant add them at this point. The draft is about the eye of the beholder. Im still a big fan of Nate Robinson, I would still like to see us get him somehow, maybe with the 2 1 or moving up with the two. I think you can see the success of the second unit in Denver and a lot of that has to do with Boykins ability to really push the ball, no one can stay in front of him and I see the same thing with Nate, but Nate is a much stronger athlete who can also play well above the rim.

Draftcity mock draft actually has Channing Frye, Wayne Simien Rashad McCants all in the 2nd round. Of course I think it's ludicrous, I dont expect any of those guys to last past 20 at the LATEST, but we stil have that pick just in case unless we make a promise with a player.
RIP Crushalot😞
rojasmas
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4/15/2005  8:49 PM
One thing I would bet the ranch on is that Francisco Garcia will blow in the pros. This guy is soft and doesn't handle well enough to be a 2 guard. He will be out of the league within 2 years.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
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