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would anybody be mad at this plan?
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djsunyc
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3/20/2005  9:00 PM
draft 3 players with the picks. (1 of them HAS to be a combo guard)
ZERO TRADES.
BUY OUT PENNY to open a roster spot for a rookie.
DO NOT TRADE tim.
give ariza two year LLE deal.
evaluate butler.

so our roster is:

marbury
craw
tim
ariza
jyd
sweets
mo
malik
kurt
butler
draft pick
draft pick
draft pick

keep herb as coach. try to get gadz or hunter via the MLE.
and that's it.

then AFTER next season, keep BOTH #1's a use them.
try to trade mo for a 1 year player (like him)
pick up sweets option

so our roster is:

marbury
craw
ariza
jyd
sweets
mo/traded player on 1 year deal
malik
kurt
butler
2005 draft pick
2005 draft pick
2005 draft pick
2006 draft pick
2006 draft pick

so within 2 years, we have 8 players under the age of 25 making <$5 mil/year, and a 26 year old SG making $6 mil.
AUTOADVERT
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  9:02 PM
why does one of them have to be a combo guard? we have 2 combo guards already in crawford and marbury we need a SG!
BRIGGS
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3/20/2005  9:03 PM
i say we get 10 PFs and just keep hammering everyone, just turn it into a whole different sport, kind of like baskarugbyball.
RIP Crushalot&#128542;
djsunyc
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3/20/2005  9:08 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

i say we get 10 PFs and just keep hammering everyone, just turn it into a whole different sport, kind of like baskarugbyball.

interesting. did you hack into isiah's computer?
djsunyc
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3/20/2005  9:09 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

why does one of them have to be a combo guard? we have 2 combo guards already in crawford and marbury we need a SG!

yes - and let's play them 48 mins a piece.

we need depth at the PG and SG position. penny is not cutting it.
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  9:21 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by gunsnewing:

why does one of them have to be a combo guard? we have 2 combo guards already in crawford and marbury we need a SG!

yes - and let's play them 48 mins a piece.

we need depth at the PG and SG position. penny is not cutting it.

first and foremost we need a big SG who can defend the perimeter than maybe if Crawford doesn't cut it as backup PG then maybe draft a pg in the 2nd round or find a solid backup
fishmike
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3/20/2005  9:22 PM
dj you touched on something...
The bottom line is Isiah can make lateral trades and turn over the roster every 6 months till he's blue in the face. The only way this disaster turns around is if the organization bigtime executes in the draft. That means getting guys like Ariza, Tinsley, Harrison, Josh Howard, etc. late in the draft and getting real bigtime talent (if not star talent) with this lottery pick. Maybe not a franchise player, you can always control that, but a next tier guy. You cant bank on a perenial all star but at least a guy thats going to get consideration every year.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  9:26 PM
I guess some of us enjoy getting toasted by the Wades, kobes, lebrons, richardsons of the league because we have such a phenomenal defensive stopper at the 2 with Crawford.



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/20/2005 21:28:48]
fishmike
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3/20/2005  10:07 PM
why discriminate???? we get torched at every position..

http://www.82games.com/0405NYK5.HTM

actually if you want to base your arguements on facts look at the bottom of that page. We are +3 at PG. Not suprising. We are only -1.5 at SG. Not bad. Considering what a lousy defender people think Crawford is we arent getting hurt at that battle. We are +1.5 at center. Which leaves us at forward. Both of them. Between TT/KT most of this year we are a combined -9 there.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  10:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

why discriminate???? we get torched at every position..

http://www.82games.com/0405NYK5.HTM

actually if you want to base your arguements on facts look at the bottom of that page. We are +3 at PG. Not suprising. We are only -1.5 at SG. Not bad. Considering what a lousy defender people think Crawford is we arent getting hurt at that battle. We are +1.5 at center. Which leaves us at forward. Both of them. Between TT/KT most of this year we are a combined -9 there.

You mean PGs and SGs lighting us up with 3's all season and penetrating right past our unintimidating frontline is not a concern? wow!


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/20/2005 22:19:23]
crzymdups
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3/20/2005  11:21 PM
Posted by fishmike:

why discriminate???? we get torched at every position..

http://www.82games.com/0405NYK5.HTM

actually if you want to base your arguements on facts look at the bottom of that page. We are +3 at PG. Not suprising. We are only -1.5 at SG. Not bad. Considering what a lousy defender people think Crawford is we arent getting hurt at that battle. We are +1.5 at center. Which leaves us at forward. Both of them. Between TT/KT most of this year we are a combined -9 there.

most of the numbers at center came with Nazr. But I agree in spirit. The issue is SF and PF (and now, center with Nazr gone). I don't care how many crap ass PFs we have on the roster, I want some good talent. That's why I say Warrick is still a good option. He can play the 3 or the 4.

I agree about not trading Penny or Tim for lateral talent. Other than that, I think one of the biggest mistakes Zeke can make this summer would be to trust Tim Thomas. Don't trust him Zeke. Buy him out, let him rot on the IR, whatever. Do not trust that guy.
¿ △ ?
OldFan
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3/20/2005  11:23 PM
Posted by fishmike:

why discriminate???? we get torched at every position..

http://www.82games.com/0405NYK5.HTM

actually if you want to base your arguements on facts look at the bottom of that page. We are +3 at PG. Not suprising. We are only -1.5 at SG. Not bad. Considering what a lousy defender people think Crawford is we arent getting hurt at that battle. We are +1.5 at center. Which leaves us at forward. Both of them. Between TT/KT most of this year we are a combined -9 there.

I like the site but before quoting the stats you should at least define them. WHat is Per? (Have you read the book?)

All the site says is "It's a complicated single number rating developed by... Some guy I never heard of.

It may be a great stat. It may be terrible. But to just quote it when you either don't know what is is or haven't bothered to explain why it has value doesn't support your point very well.
JUNKMEIN
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3/21/2005  4:02 AM
The only thing I question about it is that there's this guy nicknamed H2O that you're leaving off the roster. Did I miss something in an earlier post where he was moved? I would hope (and pray) that Isiah could somehow move Kurt for a pick before the draft. Other than that my hope is that Isiah proves his worth once again with the extra draft picks.
djsunyc
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3/21/2005  8:53 AM
we can trade for zach randolph and mike finley next season and we STILL WON'T WIN. that's what i'm upset about. keep taking back big salary and still don't have anything but a round or two of the playoffs to show for it.

why not put together a nice young DEEP squad and try to parlay that into something - like memphis. when we're in this position, we need as much flexibility as possible. keeping these draft picks gives us that.
djsunyc
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3/21/2005  8:55 AM
why couldn't this team use h20's expiring deal as a deadline to clear out all the dead weight? instead of marbury, why couldn't we brought in a player that expired in 07? and even WITH marbury and crawford, we were ok cap-wise until we bit into it for another $9 mil in malik rose. it may seemed far-fetched but we won't even be close to a player in a yao ming or lebron james type sweepstakes. there was no plan set in place and now we're adjusting on the fly. we needed a PLAN after layden.


[Edited by - djsunyc on 03/21/2005 08:58:38]
tkf
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3/21/2005  4:34 PM
I agree, we must let TT and penny just expire and fill their spots with new talent, if I were IT, I would promise Josh boone one of our first round picks if he comes out, and then try to trade next years spurs pick and cash for another first rounder this year, If we could come away with a draft of josh boone, jaret jack or wayne simien, and marvin williams, I would go completely nuts!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
EnySpree
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3/21/2005  5:03 PM
This draft is impressive. I would really be for trading one of next years pick for an extra pick this year. That would be awesome.


The Knicks will be getting 2 nice draft pick this year. By trading next years pick for this years will be cake. That's 3 possible impact players, for the rookie salary. Awesome. Ariza, Sweets, Butler? Wow.

Isiah might be inclined to trade Marbs as the season goes along especially if Isiah draft a good enough point guard.

This years draft is exciting. The possibilities are endless.

As far as trading Tim or Penny? Maybe buying Penny out is the right thing to do. I'd hate to pick up a so so player making the max. The Knicks traded the expiring contracts for players the Bulls didn't want in Craw and JYD last year. I don't see the Knicks getting anybody with maximum talent from Tim or Penny's contracts.
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joec32033
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3/21/2005  5:21 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

This draft is impressive. I would really be for trading one of next years pick for an extra pick this year. That would be awesome.


The Knicks will be getting 2 nice draft pick this year. By trading next years pick for this years will be cake. That's 3 possible impact players, for the rookie salary. Awesome. Ariza, Sweets, Butler? Wow.

Isiah might be inclined to trade Marbs as the season goes along especially if Isiah draft a good enough point guard.

This years draft is exciting. The possibilities are endless.

As far as trading Tim or Penny? Maybe buying Penny out is the right thing to do. I'd hate to pick up a so so player making the max. The Knicks traded the expiring contracts for players the Bulls didn't want in Craw and JYD last year. I don't see the Knicks getting anybody with maximum talent from Tim or Penny's contracts.

Agree 100% next year's draft will be SHALLOW due to the age limit that will almost certainly be reatified...trade an unconditional next year's number one for an 12 or higher pick, IMO....we can really get a dream draft here, it may just take a little creativity...

I would even be open to trading Sweets and an unconditional 1 next year to move into the top 5 or six and grab
Gerald Green, Wayne Simien and Petro...looking at NBADraft, I don't know why the Europeans are going so damn high...are they really that good...Paul being eligable will have a HUGE impact on this draft.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 03/21/2005 17:24:36]
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Bippity10
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3/21/2005  5:25 PM
I am mad at this plan!
I just hope that people will like me
tomverve
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3/21/2005  5:38 PM
Here's some info about PER:

http://forumblueandgold.blogspot.com/2004/12/what-are-those-numbers.html
http://basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

The stats fishmike cites are NY's PER this season, by position, minus opposition PER, by position. This essentially compares how NY's position players are stacking up against the comp-- it counts both offense and defense. It is clear that NY is getting killed at both forward positions-- not only because opponent Fs are doing well against us, but also because out Fs have been supbar on offense themselves. KT has been solid shooting the midrange J and rebounding, but his style hurts his PER-- almost no inside shots, almost no FTs. No explanation needed for TT.

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