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does this franchise even matter anymore?
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djsunyc
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3/20/2005  12:14 AM
does ANYBODY in the league take us seriously? anybody? does it even matter to jim dolan that the heat are playing like it's a scrimmage against us? are we EVER a factor in anything? it's been 4 years. NOTHING'S CHANGED. more payroll, more mediocrity.

i've been sitting here listening to EVERYBODY and their mother bitch and moan about this team in the papers and on tv for the past 4 years. and i would call them idiots. i would say they have no clue what they're talking about. well i guess the egg is all over my face now b/c it was me that was clueless.

i've been a season ticket holder for a couple of years now. and about 2 weeks ago, i decided to give them up for next season. that's how much i disliked the last two trades.

it's so bad man, just so bad...
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islesfan
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3/20/2005  12:22 AM
Apology accepted.
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djsunyc
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3/20/2005  12:28 AM
too funny.

you had your reasons from the get go and were/are pretty stubborn about it. i wanted to see how it unfolded. and here i am...but i'm still not coming over for thanksgiving just yet...isiah's not dead in the water just yet. he's drowning but he ain't dead. he needs to hit a HOME RUN this summer to see what direction he's taking us. but for right now, would you like me to bring yams or mashed potatoes...just in case
Nalod
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3/20/2005  12:44 AM
I stopped watching a few weeks ago. That January swoon was pathetic,and Isiah is possiblty what I feared when he was hired, a lot of hype.

Im ok with a few things, but Im hanging and laying lower than before cuz the core of Anfernee, MO T., Marbs, TT and others just don't thrill me.

Time will tell, and if you want to call me a fair weather friend, well lets just say I stuck thru lots of muck thru the years, but just don't see anything all that great.

Im here, so I must care! Im here, so I am still rooting for the team, and for Isiah.

But Its almost spring! No stanley cup either! That sucks!
Rich
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3/20/2005  12:46 AM
The team is spinning its wheels.

[Edited by - Rich on 03/20/2005 00:47:10]
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  1:00 AM
I here you Nalod. I'm still going to wait and see what Isiah does during this offseason and next year's trade deadline and then what he does with Houston. If I look at this team then and and its no better than it is today then I will crucify every single person in the organization.
Silverfuel
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3/20/2005  8:22 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I'm still going to wait and see what Isiah does during this offseason and next year's trade deadline
I am a big believer in this. Thomas has not done a good job so far. He has been marginally better than Layden. What he did last year was acquiree TT, Penny both expiring next year. Those are tradeable assests. They will be VERY valuable at the trade deadline.

This is what I think: Isiah gets 2 progress reports and a final grade.

1) One progress report in due in the off-season.
2) Another progress report is due at the trade deadline next year
3) His final grade (if he lasts that long) is due when Waste of space Allan Houston's mega contract comes off the books.

What do you think Nalod?
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franco12
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3/20/2005  8:32 AM
I think Isiah has increased the talent level of this team.

This team has shown signs of being a good team- if you take out January's funk, TT's horrid start, we're there in the playoffs.

This team is an out of tune car- the version IT took over was a chevy cavalier- perhaps now we have a ford tauras.

A lot is going to depend on the draft- and what position we get in the lottery.

I still think we are one or two solid players away from being a solid playoff team.
Clean
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3/20/2005  9:53 AM
IT was right when he said knick fans have no patience. I did'nt believe him ut I am seeing this to be true more and more everyday. What happened to the 3 year window everyone gave him? Its now been reduced to 1 year. Its really getting sad.
EnySpree
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3/20/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by franco12:

I think Isiah has increased the talent level of this team.

This team has shown signs of being a good team- if you take out January's funk, TT's horrid start, we're there in the playoffs.

This team is an out of tune car- the version IT took over was a chevy cavalier- perhaps now we have a ford tauras.

A lot is going to depend on the draft- and what position we get in the lottery.

I still think we are one or two solid players away from being a solid playoff team.

I'm with you.....Isiah has done more than we thought possible within the first 15 months on the job. The big movement will be this summer since he has the picks and the potential to trade off at least 2 power fwds. Sky is the limit because we have already seen the bottom.

There is alot of reasons to stay with this team. I wish Knick fans would be easy.
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Kwazimodal
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3/20/2005  11:18 AM
The Knicks have been through some bad patches before but its been a while since we have been through one that was this long.Its hard to get fired up about this team.

I saw some hope earlier in the season but Isiah's insistence on constantly tinkering with the roster has left us with a team that isnt together long enough to build some kind of team chemistry.All this shuffling is doing nothing for morale.

We can keep playing musical vets into the next decade so Isiah can stock draft picks but how are they going to develop on a team that keeps changing constantly?

I know IT has a very difficult job but he needs to be more of a stabilizing force,he is running the Knicks like he is at the craps table in Atlantic City.

If he really does have a long term plan,I hope it doesnt involve wholesale changes to the roster at every trade deadline.This team needs to build an identity,whatever that may be.He is going to have a hard time doing it if he keeps blowing up the team every few months.

gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  12:45 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

The Knicks have been through some bad patches before but its been a while since we have been through one that was this long.Its hard to get fired up about this team.

I saw some hope earlier in the season but Isiah's insistence on constantly tinkering with the roster has left us with a team that isnt together long enough to build some kind of team chemistry.All this shuffling is doing nothing for morale.

We can keep playing musical vets into the next decade so Isiah can stock draft picks but how are they going to develop on a team that keeps changing constantly?

I know IT has a very difficult job but he needs to be more of a stabilizing force,he is running the Knicks like he is at the craps table in Atlantic City.

If he really does have a long term plan,I hope it doesnt involve wholesale changes to the roster at every trade deadline.This team needs to build an identity,whatever that may be.He is going to have a hard time doing it if he keeps blowing up the team every few months.

We will have some stability once Allan's Houston's $20mil is off our cap! Then we'll be able to bring in actual good players. Players who you don't trade away. There's only so much you can do when you have a guy like Allan Houston sitting on the bench in a suit collecting $20mil in cap money per year.
Kwazimodal
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3/20/2005  12:58 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Kwazimodal:

The Knicks have been through some bad patches before but its been a while since we have been through one that was this long.Its hard to get fired up about this team.

I saw some hope earlier in the season but Isiah's insistence on constantly tinkering with the roster has left us with a team that isnt together long enough to build some kind of team chemistry.All this shuffling is doing nothing for morale.

We can keep playing musical vets into the next decade so Isiah can stock draft picks but how are they going to develop on a team that keeps changing constantly?

I know IT has a very difficult job but he needs to be more of a stabilizing force,he is running the Knicks like he is at the craps table in Atlantic City.

If he really does have a long term plan,I hope it doesnt involve wholesale changes to the roster at every trade deadline.This team needs to build an identity,whatever that may be.He is going to have a hard time doing it if he keeps blowing up the team every few months.

We will have some stability once Allan's Houston's $20mil is off our cap! Then we'll be able to bring in actual good players. Players who you don't trade away. There's only so much you can do when you have a guy like Allan Houston sitting on the bench in a suit collecting $20mil in cap money per year.

I understand your point about expiring contracts,but Im not ready to use Houston's deal as an excuse for Isiah making those questionable moves.Its letting him off too easy IMO.

I havent given up on Isiah,I think he should be given one more season to show he is moving the team in the right direction.I dont expect instant contenders but I would like to see something resembling stability in a franchise that hasnt seen it for some time.
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  1:04 PM
but its difficult when the only player you can afford is Jamal Crawford because you have a guy in street cloths taking up all the cap.

What GM would turn this around in 1yr? name one...

unless you one of those who really think what you'd get for Baker & Moochie would've definitely turn this around.



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/20/2005 13:07:10]
Kwazimodal
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3/20/2005  1:25 PM
I agree gunsewing,its a tough job but noone is putting a gun to IT's head and telling him to take on bloated contracts in the meantime.

Late first round draft picks are nice but not at the expense of more cap killing deadweight,players that take up PT that should be given to developing talent like Sweets and Ariza.

Who knows? The way things are going Isiah may take on another Houston size contract just when Allan's is over,another once great vet that he will claim fills a need,something that is supposed to get us to the playoffs but not much further.

Like its been said many times before,sometimes the best deal is not making one.
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  1:42 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I agree gunsewing,its a tough job but noone is putting a gun to IT's head and telling him to take on bloated contracts in the meantime.

Late first round draft picks are nice but not at the expense of more cap killing deadweight,players that take up PT that should be given to developing talent like Sweets and Ariza.

Who knows? The way things are going Isiah may take on another Houston size contract just when Allan's is over,another once great vet that he will claim fills a need,something that is supposed to get us to the playoffs but not much further.

Like its been said many times before,sometimes the best deal is not making one.

well I can't argue with that but that is mainly Dolan's fault not Isiah's. Maybe its best that the people rooting that we blow this up and rebuild in clippers, bulls fashion should find another team to become a fan of because this team is not going to take that route ever. I have no problems with a high payroll like the Mavericks have. I just have a really big problem with paying a guy $100mil for 7yrs. 5 of which are spent in street cloths on the bench or as a spot up shooter for 15mins a game.
djsunyc
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3/20/2005  3:17 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

What GM would turn this around in 1yr? name one...

i don't think it's about turning it around in one year in terms of wins and losses. i think it's turning it around in terms of the direction and philosophy of the franchise. for the past 3 years under layden, it was about not giving 2 cents about the cap, bringing in overpriced mediocre players and just trying to get into the playoffs.

under isiah, the cap and contract philosophy is still there - they don't care about the $$$. the difference is that isiah brought in younger players instead of older ones. he's overpaid in some trades. that's why he needs to really hit a home run this draft and this summer. if he doesn't, then in essence, it's no different than layden.

i think we all expected a GM to come in and make all good moves. so far, most of isiah's moves have been debateable so that's why people, myself included, are upset right now.
gunsnewing
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3/20/2005  3:31 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by gunsnewing:

What GM would turn this around in 1yr? name one...

i don't think it's about turning it around in one year in terms of wins and losses. i think it's turning it around in terms of the direction and philosophy of the franchise. for the past 3 years under layden, it was about not giving 2 cents about the cap, bringing in overpriced mediocre players and just trying to get into the playoffs.

under isiah, the cap and contract philosophy is still there - they don't care about the $$$. the difference is that isiah brought in younger players instead of older ones. he's overpaid in some trades. that's why he needs to really hit a home run this draft and this summer. if he doesn't, then in essence, it's no different than layden.

i think we all expected a GM to come in and make all good moves. so far, most of isiah's moves have been debateable so that's why people, myself included, are upset right now.

but does have a philosophy! itsa drafting players and using expire contracts to add more talented young vets! Taylor might not be one but marbury and crawford are. They just have to keep adding good young player to this young core and everything will be alright!
does this franchise even matter anymore?

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