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keep tt and penny and let them come of our books?
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rvhoss
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3/17/2005  12:05 PM
Is this a possible scenario?

We're gonna get stuck with longer term contracts to make the numbers work, and unless it's shaq (I think both of them equal his salary) then let them come off and we sign a big name free agent the summer of 2006...

hmmm, who's available that summer?
Al Harrington (wasn't he spied by zeke in indiana?)
Ben Wallace (unrestricted, with the brown circus, I could see him leaving for greener pastures)
Wilcox (restricted, but he's been mentioned on the board)
Shaq (just putting it there as a goof)
Mike Redd (is this a typo?)
Tony Battie (true center, 6-11)
Doug Christie (come back home?)

As I finished typing this, it felt silly, but the original concept stands, why not let them come off of our books (if it's so valuable for that to happen?)


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Kwazimodal
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3/17/2005  12:13 PM
Maybe you guys have a better memory than I do but I cant think of any players,at least not 11 or 12th men who we have let their contract expire in the last few years.Anyone?
TMS
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3/17/2005  12:33 PM
sorry to break this to you but even if the Knicks allow TT & Penny's contracts to expire, they're still on the hook for $84,835,625 in 2007...there is no strategic advantage for the Knicks to go that route...the best thing to do is to trade them at next year's trade deadline for a player that can help this team...a Jamaal Magloire or someone like this would be my best guess as to what Isiah plans to do with those expiring deals.

any MLE type free agent you have your eyes on now can be gotten then regardless, but several of those you mentioned above will take sign & trades to get.

[Edited by - TMS on 03/17/2005 12:34:46]
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rvhoss
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3/17/2005  12:47 PM
Posted by TMS:

sorry to break this to you but even if the Knicks allow TT & Penny's contracts to expire, they're still on the hook for $84,835,625 in 2007...there is no strategic advantage for the Knicks to go that route...the best thing to do is to trade them at next year's trade deadline for a player that can help this team...a Jamaal Magloire or someone like this would be my best guess as to what Isiah plans to do with those expiring deals.

any MLE type free agent you have your eyes on now can be gotten then regardless, but several of those you mentioned above will take sign & trades to get.

[Edited by - TMS on 03/17/2005 12:34:46]

I see your point...but why would a team give us magloire and wouldn't that keep us waaay over the cap? Also, if we are over the cap, and we let their contracts expire, can we resign them cheaper?
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TMS
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3/17/2005  12:54 PM
whether we're over the cap by $10 or by $100,000,000, we're still over the cap & so unable to offer anything more than a MLE contract to any free agents...the real time to make a run at free agents is in 2008 when Houston's contract will be off the books...now if you have a sight on that then i can understand not taking on any long term deals...but when have the Knicks ever followed that strategy in all the years since you've been a fan?
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Bonn1997
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3/17/2005  12:59 PM
Any discussion of letting an expiring contract just expire is about as pointless as a discussion of Isiah trading Marbury. The scenario just won't happen. You guys already know I have no problem with that so long as expiring contracts are used in intelligent trades. (And I don't have any complaints about the two trades thus far that used such contracts--the Marbury and Crawford trades).

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/17/2005 13:02:12]
rvhoss
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3/17/2005  1:06 PM
oh, so, what would we have to do if say we wanted to keep TT? Or is that not an option?

I anticipated TT producing this year, then he had those family tragedies, but he appears to be back to what I expect from him, low post play, outside balance and 15 ponts/5 boards a game.

Would we have to sign him to an extension?
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rvhoss
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3/17/2005  1:08 PM
nevermind, got my answers on the timmy thomas thread.
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Solace
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3/18/2005  2:36 AM
Letting the contracts expire only serves the main purpose if you think the new CBA will allow a lot more salary cap flexibility. Under the current CBA, we're not getting under.

That being said, let's not just make any trade just for the sake of making a trade. If there's no good deals out there next season for TT and/or Penny, I would be very upset if we traded one for a longer deal just because we didn't want to let them expire.

I honestly think that letting them expire is a valid option, but probably not a good first option.
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Panos
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3/18/2005  8:47 AM
Posted by Solace:

Letting the contracts expire only serves the main purpose if you think the new CBA will allow a lot more salary cap flexibility. Under the current CBA, we're not getting under.

That being said, let's not just make any trade just for the sake of making a trade. If there's no good deals out there next season for TT and/or Penny, I would be very upset if we traded one for a longer deal just because we didn't want to let them expire.

I honestly think that letting them expire is a valid option, but probably not a good first option.

Well said.
fishmike
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3/18/2005  10:30 AM
hopefully they hold on to both players going into next season. If there is a GREAT opportunity to get a stud at the next trading deadline then you do what you have to do. Otherwise you let them come off the books.

You can tell yourself payroll and operating costs dont matter, and if you live in NY I wonder if you still think this while MSG isnt even on the air anymore.

There is also the possibility of a "super tax" with the new CBA where teams over a certain threshold will have to pay 100 or 150% on the dollar. The $5mm here and the $9mm there in trades for non core or important pieces like Mo Taylor and Malik Rose will add up and hurt Isiah's options, especially if the CBA is going to be like everyone says it will. This is economics 101, not hating.
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joec32033
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3/18/2005  11:33 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by Solace:

Letting the contracts expire only serves the main purpose if you think the new CBA will allow a lot more salary cap flexibility. Under the current CBA, we're not getting under.

That being said, let's not just make any trade just for the sake of making a trade. If there's no good deals out there next season for TT and/or Penny, I would be very upset if we traded one for a longer deal just because we didn't want to let them expire.

I honestly think that letting them expire is a valid option, but probably not a good first option.

Well said.

Very....This has to be considered a valid iption....I would look into resigning TT at like 5-7 mil....maybe....Penny, may be better off walking unless we can somehow finagle a draft pick if we trade him...
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TMS
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3/18/2005  11:40 AM
but why would you even want TT at 5-7 million when Ariza could probably give you 12 ppg, more rebounds & a whole heckuva lot better D than TT if given starter's minutes right now for alot less? i just don't get that at all.

if you're going to spend that type of money, you need to get a player that makes an impact...TT only makes an impact when he wants to...get rid of him already.
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joec32033
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3/18/2005  12:39 PM
I still think that TT can be very effective off the bench.....5-7 mil, doesn't seem like alot to me, I mean Brian Cardinal got that, TT is a better player than him...but I can see your point....maybe 4-6 mil is a more appropriate figure
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diderotn
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3/18/2005  12:48 PM
Keep TT, but not Penny.....His health issues worries me, especially with Houston being on the payroll until after next season....Trade Penny to the Raptors for Jalen Rose..We could always use both Houston and Rose's expiring contracts at the end of 07 to clear cap...Jalen can play the two or SG

Marb and Crawf
Jalen and whomever we draft
TT, Ariza, JYD
Sweetney, Taylor, Rose M
JD, whomever we draft, and Rose M


This lineup is with the thought process of Houston not playing at all next season...

[Edited by - diderotn on 03/18/2005 12:53:41]
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gunsnewing
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3/18/2005  12:50 PM
I'd rather trade TT's expiring contract for a better player or justlet him expire but if we did resign him I wouldn't give him more than the $4-5mil he is worth. The guy haas career averages of 12pts & 4rebs. He's not worth more than $4-5mil
Masterplan
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3/18/2005  4:56 PM
Posted by TMS:

but why would you even want TT at 5-7 million when Ariza could probably give you 12 ppg, more rebounds & a whole heckuva lot better D than TT if given starter's minutes right now for alot less? i just don't get that at all.

if you're going to spend that type of money, you need to get a player that makes an impact...TT only makes an impact when he wants to...get rid of him already.

if we have TT for $5-6 mil, we can trade him. he may actually be attractive to other teams at that level, definitely movable. so, if we see that ariza is our SF of the future, trade TT for a shooter, or a combo guard, or whatever we need. trading TT at his current salary is dangerous because of the level of payroll we have to take back; he does have talent that makes it less than ideal to let him walk. resigning him at a much lower level solves that.
TMS
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3/18/2005  5:31 PM
how about we spend that money trying to land an Al Harrington type player instead of resigning some deadbeat who hasn't helped this team when it mattered at all since he's been here? let some other team sign him & find out what an underachiever he is...i'm sick of TT.
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keep tt and penny and let them come of our books?
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