alright, a lot of talk is made about trading TT and penny's final year deals and that saving the franchise. i'm not convinced that's a good idea, i think all we'll get back are perhaps marginally less flawed players with longer deals that will keep us in mediocrity for years. to give you an idea of what our options are:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

look at the list of the highest paid players. houston and marbury are up there, but they're two separate issues. my point is, under the cap, TT and penny will most likely have to go for other people on that list. so, who do we want that we can get? i'll tell you, our boys won't get us most of the players on that list. most of our options there are guys like webber, finley, van horn, eddie jones, brian grant, or IMO the best longshot there, antawn jamison. we won't get a star, and those are the next tier of players available to us. all of them flawed, many too old to be a part of our plan. i don't want a piece of any of them.

we could do a trade that nets us a good player making ~$7 mil per, plus a(nother) bad contract in the $4-5 mil range. my point is, trading those expiring deals will only accumulate bad contracts for players that won't make the difference. i would much rather we let those guys and most of our other obscene contracts expire or be bought out.

think about it. we can replace the production of guys like TT (12 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.5 apg) penny (7.5, 2.5, 2), mo T (5.5, 2, .5 with us) and houston (basically 0,0,0) with the MLE (not necessarily more than 3-4 years) or a good draft pick, even a veteran's min deal or a dermarr/butler type pickup. that's almost $50 mil in salary down to about $10 mil with almost no effect on our play. and the guys we bring in at that level will be tradeable to get the right mix of talent.

guys like JYD and rose are different because of the effects they bring, but we can't pay players who produce the same but don't have that extra benefit the way we do them. let's not perpetuate the spiral of inescapable contracts by trading all our expiring deals for marginally better overpaid players.

thoughts? think we can do better in trades for TT and penny? who?

i don't think TT & Penny's deals become valuable until at the trade deadline next season when teams will be looking to dump big contracts...maybe a Jamaal Magloire, or Brad Miller perhaps depending on what SAC decides to do w/that team (it seems to me they're looking to build back up with youth, but i could be wrong...we'll see if they trade Peja in the offseason which will pretty much tell you what their plans are going forward.)

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by TMS:

i don't think TT & Penny's deals become valuable until at the trade deadline next season when teams will be looking to dump big contracts...maybe a Jamaal Magloire, or Brad Miller perhaps depending on what SAC decides to do w/that team (it seems to me they're looking to build back up with youth, but i could be wrong...we'll see if they trade Peja in the offseason which will pretty much tell you what their plans are going forward.)

exactly. they'll be traded at next year's deadline for max value

my point is, WHO? sacramento is going to just hand us brad miller? or, more likely, a brad miller package with kenny thomas (big $$$ until 2010) or corliss? for a guy they plan to let walk? uh, OK.

or we could get guys like the "stars" that moved at this year's deadline. webber: old, past prime, injured and shadow of his former self. or baron davis: injury prone, bad conditioning, not a winner. sign me up for years of mediocrity

i've given you guys names of players we can get for TT and penny. they're not pretty. who can we get who's better?

[Edited by - Masterplan on 03/16/2005 13:42:28]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by TMS:

i don't think TT & Penny's deals become valuable until at the trade deadline next season when teams will be looking to dump big contracts...maybe a Jamaal Magloire, or Brad Miller perhaps depending on what SAC decides to do w/that team (it seems to me they're looking to build back up with youth, but i could be wrong...we'll see if they trade Peja in the offseason which will pretty much tell you what their plans are going forward.)

exactly. they'll be traded at next year's deadline for max value

my point is, WHO? sacramento is going to just hand us brad miller? or, more likely, a brad miller package with kenny thomas (big $$$ until 2010) or corliss? for a guy they plan to let walk? uh, OK.

or we could get guys like the "stars" that moved at this year's deadline. webber: old, past prime, injured and shadow of his former self. or baron davis: injury prone, bad conditioning, not a winner. sign me up for years of mediocrity

i've given you guys names of players we can get for TT and penny. they're not pretty. who can we get who's better?

[Edited by - Masterplan on 03/16/2005 13:42:28]

let's see...what team would possibly trade us a good player for expiring contracts & draft picks? i mean it's not like we could get someone like Stephon Marbury for instance, right?

LMAO!!!

GOOD ONE!

This topic is hypocritical....

The media torched Isiah for piling more payroll in his trades....but welcome the fact that Isiah can trade Tim or Penny because their deals expire next year.....This is the media and alot of guys on here fall for that.

I don't care about salaries or using expiring deals.....just as long as Isiah puts some real ball players out there that I could be proud of. I want to see a champion crowned in the current Garden before they decide it's fate.

Posted by djsunyc:

the best thing to do with tim and penny is...nothing.

if we trade them, we are getting some NASTY contracts in return putting us substantially over the cap for the rest of the decade. i want to stand still and let them expire.

we need to purge this roster of 30 yeard old big contract players. in fact, i would actually BUY OUT penny and give that roster spot to one of our draft picks instead of the pick wasting away on IR.

tim can still start but when he's done, he should be gone. if he's playing like this ALL of next season, then you can entertain the thought of re-signing him via the MLE and that's it (and to be a backup).

these two guys should expire.

I wouldn't mind that either but I really doubt it will ever happen with this Knicks organization. I'm a realist...just being realistic. They will never just let a contract expire. They will get a player that can help them make it to the playoffs and put $$$in Dolan's wallet. Hopefully that player is a good young player like a Stephon Marbury not a Cwebb/Mcdyess type.

I want Finley and Howard because we might be about to pull it off without losing the expiring contracts of TT/Penny

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/16/2005 14:27:10]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Masterplan:

let's see...what team would possibly trade us a good player for expiring contracts & draft picks? i mean it's not like we could get someone like Stephon Marbury for instance, right?

so you're totally on board with giving up draft picks and expiring deals for flawed stars everyone knows about along with more hideous contracts? let's have a team of three marburies, four pennies, four mo T's, oh yeah, and ariza? sign me up.

i'm saying, let's change the formula that got us here. i still like the marbury trade, but i don't think it's a good idea to keep making those types of moves.

i didn't say i was totally on board with it, but you were making it out to seem as if we had no chance at guys like Brad Miller or Jamaal Magloire when we just traded for Stephon Marbury a year ago using the same types of trade assets we'll have next season.

i wasn't at all entertaining the idea of giving up our picks just to move TT or penny. so i guess our options do expand if we want to give those up, but i figured we were past that by now.

i'm glad people do see the value of letting deals expire, that's why at this point i'm hoping for retirements and buyouts as I agree dolan and IT won't want to let anyone walk.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 03/16/2005 16:02:46]