ok enough of the back and forth. one thing we all do know is that ariza was starting to get more minutes, but since penny rejoined the team, his minutes have been cut.

some don't mind it, which is their right but i do b/c i don't think it helps us for the future.

so you think Ariza is fully developed Bonn? and the fact that he's virtually getting no playing time because of Penny means nothing because he's already fully developed since he played a lot more in the first half. You dont think he needs to get any better? He's ready to play 36mins and shoot lights out and not make any mistakes if he was forced to play? NO he would still look like a rookie for amuch longer time andwell into next season. Hes not even going to get a chance to experience the playoffs fromthe bench since they're not making i while playing the mediocre overpaid vets.

Posted by djsunyc:

ok enough of the back and forth. one thing we all do know is that ariza was starting to get more minutes, but since penny rejoined the team, his minutes have been cut.

some don't mind it, which is their right but i do b/c i don't think it helps us for the future.

Recently, when Ariza plays less then 16 minutes, the knicks have won all 5 games. When he plays over 17 we have 2 wins and 8 losses (both stats since february 1) Since february 22nd (the last time he played over 20 minutes), we are 5 and 3.

We have to differentiate between developing Ariza and winning games Now.

I'm for winning games by any means necessary, even if it's at the expense of a rookie's playing time...that's just how I roll. =)

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03/15/2005 11:33:16]

THey are playing to win, not develope. At some point we need to just drop the playoff dream and move forward with youth. This season can be catorgoized in two ways. Record and developement. The record has been a big disappiontment. We went backwards. Now the early buzz did create revenue, so from a cash flow, management can't cry too much. We must be one of the all time win/salary ratio teams in history. Pehaps never has a team lead the league in salary by over 21% from the next team and done so badly! Last place? Or in a 31 teams league, finish in the bottom quartile!

In terms of assets, we are growing. We have better players on paper, but thier salaries must come off the books. Bonnie, I think we can't take back anymore than we give away, so if we get some nice picks, Penny and TT must fall off the books.

I also think we just can't see some things in terms of who and how we will get better.

Ray-Ray for Craw and KT? Does it make Seattle better? Does it bring another big name here? Or can Ray Ray actually play with Marbs, and they are both better together? Is anyone better with Marbs?

I have given up on this team. Spring looms in the air in the Carolinas so more outside stuff, plus we got march maddness! Real kids playing with a purpose. Tere are are almost 800 kids in the Ncaa tournament. Say 20 will actually make it to an NBA roster! They are playing for pride, the glory of one last chance before moving on. Some will play in Europe, but lets be real, College is about the passion for most. Look at the kids whom upset and move on, look at the excitement in their eyes. Then look at Marbury next time one of his players does not exactly cover for one of his mistakes. Look at his eyes. Or Dumb old TT making another bone head plan! I gotta watch freaking Anfernee get 30 min knowing he would not make roster if not for his contract, while Reezy is getting his minutes cut? Or MO T. over Sweets?

This season is all about Reezy for me, I like watching him play, cause turnovers, a put back dunk, etc. His rookie mistakes are also interesting to watch, because that is how we will measure his game in the next year or two!

Posted by rvhoss:

Recently, when Ariza plays less then 16 minutes, the knicks have won all 5 games. When he plays over 17 we have 2 wins and 8 losses (both stats since february 1) Since february 22nd (the last time he played over 20 minutes), we are 5 and 3.

We have to differentiate between developing Ariza and winning games Now.

I'm for winning games by any means necessary, even if it's at the expense of a rookie's playing time...that's just how I roll. =)

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03/15/2005 11:33:16]

It's not really fair to assume that Ariza is directly responsible for those losses. I'm too lazy to go in and find out what games he played more than 20 minutes in, but that was during that free fall the team went through. Plus, I would assume he was given plenty of garbage minutes during that stretch. It's just an unfortunate cooincidence that he isn't getting the minutes since the team has been rejuvinated by the trades.
I still believe Trevor can help us win games more so than Penny, or even more than Jamal (atleast on his cold nights).
Unless we're making some serious damage this year, I don't see a point in not playing him when it's questionable if he is even any worse than the vets getting minutes.

there is an old proverb (I've said it once before) that...

there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Just busting on Reezy...I'm sure it's not his fault and most of the time it's garbage time minutes.

Just jokes.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 03/15/2005 15:45:07]