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why is this team making a playoff push?
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djsunyc
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3/14/2005  12:21 AM
i mean seriously. why are sweets and ariza STILL not getting 30 mins? ariza, i can see, b/c we need to use penny's ball handling ability, but he's not even getting 15-20 mins a night. sweets not getting 30 a night is just a travesty. 4 fouls in the 3rd, fine. but to not put him back in the lineup in the 4th quarter...two games in a row? why? does mo taylor really have to play?

when will we learn to play the young guys and see what we got? if we win, GREAT. if we don't, then at least they develop, we know what we have, and get a better draft pick.

i want to win also but is it really worth it at the expense of developing our young guys?

old argument, it's be rehashed a million times, but it's still a valid one. it's so frustrating.
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tkf
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3/14/2005  12:25 AM
As herm edwards said " you play to win the game!!"
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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3/14/2005  12:28 AM
Posted by tkf:

As herm edwards said " you play to win the game!!"

right, let's win the game and then face the heat and get 2 extra home games and get bounced!!!

don't get me wrong, i cheer for this team to win, but at this point of THIS season, winning these games at the expense of sweets and ariza is counterproductive.

penny and mo ARE NOT THE FUTURE OF THIS FRANCHISE.

this is a LOST SEASON.

please, at least let's get something beneficial out of it.
bigpimpin
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3/14/2005  1:10 AM
too much talent on the team to not be in the hunt for the playoffs

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Allanfan20
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3/14/2005  1:58 AM
More like too much of a payroll.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Clean
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3/14/2005  6:53 AM
The answer is simple if herb williams concedes to defeat he thinks his job is as good as gone. So that wont happen anytime soon. Now that I think of it I don't blame him. If I was in the same situation I would do the same thing.
MaTT4281
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3/14/2005  6:58 AM
why are sweets and ariza STILL not getting 30 mins?
Can't answer you there. I still feel that should be a higher priority than the playoffs. Anything we accomplish with those 2 getting those kind of minutes is just a plus.
Marv
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3/14/2005  8:09 AM
dj, i'm with you there. Crazy crazy season. Every time you adjust to us rebuilding, we go into a win streak. Every tiem you adjust to rooting for a playoff spot, we start to stink. My focus is more on next season than this one at this point. It would be an incredible boost if Butler turns out to be something. Our 2 #1's are crucial. Sweets, Reezy and Craw have to continue to develop. Marbs is still the man in my book. Decisions have to be made about who's a contributing role player among TT, KT, JYD, Mo, Malik. My mind's open re: Herb - I wouldn't complain if we retained him but I'm not sold on him yet either.

We're really having to live by the adage, "Don't get too high after a win or too low after a loss . . ."
EnySpree
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3/14/2005  9:11 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

More like too much of a payroll.

The payroll issue will not go away so why talk about it? Houston has like 3-4 years left making 20 mill per.....The issues of payroll is an easy arguement. To talk about it now if redundant because this was a problem already established way back when Ewing was still a Knick.....and the steadily overpaying of wack players while under Scott Layden.

This team right now is a whole different animal compared to the start of the season. Timmy is back mentally after having the worst start of his career dealing with his sisters death and various other crazy stuff. The Knicks had crazy injuries from December till the trading deadline....

After all this to talk about the payroll is childish.

The current team at least since the tradign deadline have been playing good basketball.......Damn MSG for not giving us our Knicks the past 2 games!!! That is more of an issue than payroll!!!!!

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MS
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3/14/2005  9:15 AM
Ask Isiah Thomas whom everyone is so high on....He made two trades that he says gave us a present and a future but in reality makes us take a step back by adding salary, winning more games hurting our draft pick and taking minutes away from the young guys...

But everyone has faith in MESSIAH THOMAS
djsunyc
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3/14/2005  9:48 AM
payroll and the recent trades have all been addressed ad naseum here. they're valid arguments that will always have two sides.

but i think everybody agrees that sweets and ariza should be getting more minutes (at least i hope they do). this team actually is making a playoff run by playing veterans...which is the dumbest thing this team can do. playing veterans does not do jack if their skill level is diminished. how many times do we need to see penny get beat by his man? did you see mo try to "defend" the pick and roll? he just puts his hand out, doesn't even move his body or jump out. ugggghh. and tim proves once again that you can't rely on him.

we are not a supertalented team so why not give the young guys a legitimate shot? that's all i want to know.
EnySpree
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3/14/2005  9:49 AM
Posted by MS:

Ask Isiah Thomas whom everyone is so high on....He made two trades that he says gave us a present and a future but in reality makes us take a step back by adding salary, winning more games hurting our draft pick and taking minutes away from the young guys...

But everyone has faith in MESSIAH THOMAS

I have 10 times more faith in Isiah than Layden.

The Knicks got like 5 power fwds...Taylor, Rose, JYD, KT and Sweets. They all do something that the other doesn't, but they all are good players. Isiah will move at least 2 of them and why not because they all are tradable.

Thing about playing young guys.........are the Knicks in the same boat as Portland? Portland will lose Shareef, Damon and NVE to free agency....that is a shyte load of payroll gone. None of them will be resigned. That is a perfect reason to tank and just play the young guys.....

Still the Knicks only have Ariza and Sweets with less that 2 years experience. Should the Knicks start Bruno, and Jackie Butler and sit the rest of the team down just to get them minutes?

If you have good players you have to play them. Isiah can always trade them later to get better. If these guys prove they can help a team win that is a plus.....especially if they can take this team from the depths of hell back into the playoff race.

While saying this Isiah is still trying to get us some young guys by picking up the extra draft picks this year and next.

What is so wrong with that?
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djsunyc
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3/14/2005  9:57 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

Thing about playing young guys.........are the Knicks in the same boat as Portland? Portland will lose Shareef, Damon and NVE to free agency....that is a shyte load of payroll gone. None of them will be resigned. That is a perfect reason to tank and just play the young guys.....

the thing about what you just said is that you think we're "tanking" if we play sweetney and ariza...which i COMPLETELY disagree with. i think sweetney can play and has shown he can. he brings a post dimension to this team and hustles out there - so why is he losing minutes to mo taylor? and ariza can play defense as you saw last night on rashard lewis. butler is not ready but i would have no problems giving him a couple of minutes here and there BUT sweets is ready and ariza can definitely contribute over a 20 min stretch - remember those games of 10/5/3? what happened? penny came back, that's what happened.
gunsnewing
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3/14/2005  10:00 AM
i have no problem with Mo being on the team. He is great injury insurance incase someone gets hurt but there is absolutely no need for Herb to sacrifice a nice 5pt lead to start the 4th quarter by putting less defense and less offense for that matter with Jackson in there too! It's not like we were struggling offensively and trailing! then I can see us going to Mo for offense but we had a 5pt lead!!!!!!!!!

SOME PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY TAYLOR WAS PUT IN DURING THE 4TH QUARTER WHEN WE NEEDED DEFENSE NOT OFFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
diderotn
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3/14/2005  10:04 AM
Stop questioning the decision....In this game you win some and you lose some...We just happened to be the loser last night.....


Posted by gunsnewing:

i have no problem with Mo being on the team. He is great injury insurance incase someone gets hurt but there is absolutely no need for Herb to sacrifice a nice 5pt lead to start the 4th quarter by putting less defense and less offense for that matter with Jackson in there too! It's not like we were struggling offensively and trailing! then I can see us going to Mo for offense but we had a 5pt lead!!!!!!!!!

SOME PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY TAYLOR WAS PUT IN DURING THE 4TH QUARTER WHEN WE NEEDED DEFENSE NOT OFFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The true Knickabocker..........
MS
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3/14/2005  10:04 AM
Bad coaching thats why.....

Nice point about every foward doing something different, which makes no sense, get someone that does everything, and one player that has a speciality instead of 5 guys.....

Layden sucked, no excuse for what isiah has done, Mo Taylor is not tradeable, neither is Rose, KT is needed but his contract is long, and JYD is overpaid, but he hustles so he gets a pass
tkf
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3/14/2005  10:08 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by Allanfan20:

More like too much of a payroll.

The payroll issue will not go away so why talk about it? Houston has like 3-4 years left making 20 mill per.....The issues of payroll is an easy arguement. To talk about it now if redundant because this was a problem already established way back when Ewing was still a Knick.....and the steadily overpaying of wack players while under Scott Layden.

This team right now is a whole different animal compared to the start of the season. Timmy is back mentally after having the worst start of his career dealing with his sisters death and various other crazy stuff. The Knicks had crazy injuries from December till the trading deadline....

After all this to talk about the payroll is childish.

The current team at least since the tradign deadline have been playing good basketball.......Damn MSG for not giving us our Knicks the past 2 games!!! That is more of an issue than payroll!!!!!

I agree, the payroll talk is just childish, since this mess was established years and regimes ago..

I think the knicks should play to win, if we win, great, I will take the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may, and at worst I still have two first round picks..

Now if we lose, then still great, we get a lottery pick, either way I am fine, but playing not to win ,is just not my style, I can't root for a team that does not play to win..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
crzymdups
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3/14/2005  10:09 AM
This team isn't making the playoffs. It's too bad their four day break came when they were hot instead on in January when they needed it, but that's the trickiness of the schedule. At this point it's not about talent, it's about the remaining schedule which is brutal. I applaud Herb for keeping them together and the guys for playing hard, but when Tim Thomas is the only regular to shoot over 40% you know the team is in trouble.

All this home only winning streak did was push them from the 5th pick to the 8th pick and set back the rebuilding process.
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tkf
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3/14/2005  10:11 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

This team isn't making the playoffs. It's too bad their four day break came when they were hot instead on in January when they needed it, but that's the trickiness of the schedule. At this point it's not about talent, it's about the remaining schedule which is brutal. I applaud Herb for keeping them together and the guys for playing hard, but when Tim Thomas is the only regular to shoot over 40% you know the team is in trouble.

All this home only winning streak did was push them from the 5th pick to the 8th pick and set back the rebuilding process.

so what you are saying is that you can't rebuild with a # 8 pick?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
crzymdups
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3/14/2005  10:16 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by crzymdups:

This team isn't making the playoffs. It's too bad their four day break came when they were hot instead on in January when they needed it, but that's the trickiness of the schedule. At this point it's not about talent, it's about the remaining schedule which is brutal. I applaud Herb for keeping them together and the guys for playing hard, but when Tim Thomas is the only regular to shoot over 40% you know the team is in trouble.

All this home only winning streak did was push them from the 5th pick to the 8th pick and set back the rebuilding process.

so what you are saying is that you can't rebuild with a # 8 pick?

I'm just saying its a setback to have 60 ping pong balls instead of 150. I do think this streak was good for the team's confidence, but it people had been realistically looking at the schedule for the rest of the year they would have realized there was never any hope of making the playoffs.
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