[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

What Should The Knicks Do With Allan Houston and Herb Williams?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/11/2005  9:18 AM
Allan - shut him down for the season

Herb - now it gets interesting....
once a knick always a knick
AUTOADVERT
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
3/11/2005  9:24 AM
Allan may never play another game in a Knicks uniform again the way his recovery is going...who knows? i certainly wouldn't factor him coming back this season regardless.

as for Herb, that is an interesting question...i like the way this team has played under him, & i think all the players generally have a respect for Herb & are more willing to commit to playing D than i've seen them under Chaney or Wilkens...but if a coach like Larry Brown becomes available i'm sure Isiah will be looking to bring him in.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
3/11/2005  9:36 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Allan - shut him down for the season

Herb - now it gets interesting....

That's up to Houston. He is holding himself out of games. He is clear to play but does not want to until he is 100%. Whatever that means.

Herb Williams should be given serious consideration. I don't think Jackson is a realistic choice in the fact that the Knicks are ready to contend. Larry Brown comes with too much baggage, Detroit will want something and why would you want a coach who will only stay at a spot for a year until he gets bored. Flip Saunders should not be consider over Williams. I think Williams has great ability to get the most out of his players. And this is the best player rotation that I seen for the Knicks in a real long time.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/11/2005  9:45 AM
TMS - now, what do YOU think should be done with Herb Williams?

How do you set a clear criteria for his evaluation?

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/11/2005  9:48 AM
>>That's up to Houston. He is holding himself out of games. He is clear to play but does not want to until he is 100%. Whatever that means.

PharZeone - bump dat. It AIN'T up to Houston. The franchise reserves the right to monitor his health and determine what path of re-entry should be taken.

Allan Houston was banking on faith when he turned down surgery. If he comes back this season, do you have faith that he will be an addition or a disruption to the newly-evolving Knicks chemistry?

Shut him down or not?

[Edited by - misterearl on 03/11/2005 09:49:40]
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
3/11/2005  10:20 AM
allan, for all intention purposes, should be considered DONE. if he tries to comeback, he's getting ariza type minutes (5-10) a game. even next season as well. and that's it. he's a $20mil version of craig hodges and steve kerr.

and if that's all he is, he SHOULD retire and save this franchise some $$$'s. he'd still get his $$$'s but from insurance instead.

i've said all along that i want to bring in the talent first, then worry about the coach. i have no problems keeping herb b/c we're not going to be championship contenders next season either so keep him around. but to placate the media and fans that always call for the coaches head, if they do bring in phil jackson or larry brown, and ONLY on of those two, then everyone can stop bitching and moaning about the coach (like lenny and chaney).
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
3/11/2005  10:21 AM
Posted by misterearl:

TMS - now, what do YOU think should be done with Herb Williams?

How do you set a clear criteria for his evaluation?

easy...if they can't get a Larry Brown or Phil Jackson to coach this team next year, i say they should stick w/Herb...he's done a solid job so far in not letting these guys give up on the season & have them playing hard every night for the most part, even in their losses.

as for what it might take to get LB to coach here, i can't imagine DET demanding anything more than a late 1st round pick in compensation...maybe that's why Isiah made the Rose deal & insisted on that extra 1st rounder to be included? who knows.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
3/11/2005  10:48 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i've said all along that i want to bring in the talent first, then worry about the coach. i have no problems keeping herb b/c we're not going to be championship contenders next season either so keep him around. but to placate the media and fans that always call for the coaches head, if they do bring in phil jackson or larry brown, and ONLY on of those two, then everyone can stop bitching and moaning about the coach (like lenny and chaney).

I agree with that except bringing in Phil Jackson can force the Knicks to make good decisions on the players they bring in. If Phil wants to coach the Knicks i think he'll be our coach if not then I have no problem sticking with Herb. I don't want Larry Brown because of the baggagemor any other guy who hasn't won a championship. Might as well extend Herb if Phil doesn't want to coach the Knicks.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
3/11/2005  2:03 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/288825p-247218c.html

Herb joins Larry, Phil on Knicks' list

BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

There are different ways to evaluate Herb Williams' job performance other than simply looking at his win-loss record. Perhaps Williams' greatest feat is that his boss, Isiah Thomas, no longer mentions Phil Jackson and Larry Brown by name when discussing the Knicks' head coaching job.

That being said, Thomas is not about to rule out you-know-who as potential candidates when the club opens its coaching search this summer. Thomas is encouraged by the Knicks' progress under Williams, saying, "Herb has done a marvelous job." Thomas also regards Williams a viable candidate. However, Thomas also reiterated yesterday that the Knicks are not making any commitments until they explore the possibility of hiring a more high-profile candidate.

"My job is to do what's best for the New York Knicks in the long term," Thomas said following yesterday's practice at Greenburgh. "There will be some names out there this summer. We'll take our time and diligently go though the process and at the end of the day we will select the right person who is best for the New York Knicks."

Jackson and Brown are considered the top candidates, along with Flip Saunders. Brown currently is under contract with the Detroit Pistons and already hascome out publicly saying that he will not coach the Knicks. He is, however, a candidate to coach the Lakers next season, as is Jackson, who recently had dinner with Lakers owner Jerry Buss.

"This is going to be a very good job as evident in people who have spoke about it in such a public way," Thomas said of the Knicks' gig. "I haven't spoken about any of those people. Some people have spoken publicly about the situation (in terms of) where we are today and where we're going. This is going to be a very attractive job."

Thomas is exercising patience because there could be a backlash if he were to give Williams an extension before reaching out to either Jackson or Brown. The Knicks were criticized two years ago for giving Don Chaney an extension days before Brown and Rick Carlisle became available.

Williams' chances of receiving an extension have improved in recent weeks. He is 9-12 since replacing Lenny Wilkens, including a 7-3 mark in his last 10 games. If the Knicks defy the odds and reach the playoffs, Williams would make it harder for Thomas to ignore him.

"How they judge me, that's how they're going to judge me," Williams said. "Whether it's on wins and losses, I'm not sure. But I'm not really concerned about that. The only thing I'm concerned about is the way guys are playing right now."

"I do consider Herb one of the bright young minds in the game," Thomas said. "But at the end of the season, I want to have the opportunity to go through a proper evaluation for candidates who could be applying for the job or people we think could do the job, and pick the best one."
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
tomverve
Posts: 21407
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/4/2005
Member: #878
3/11/2005  2:11 PM
I have concerns about how Phil Jackson's triangle could work with the players we have, but if he's available and interested, you have to go after him. Short of getting Phil, I'd stick with Herb. Larry Brown would be great, but we'd have to compensate Detroit with a pick, and you have to think Larry would only be here around 2-3 years, max. Flip Saunders might be a good coach, but I don't see him bringing anything that Herb couldn't.

As for Allan... I think it's obvious he needs to sit for the rest of the season. If he can make a comeback somewhere down the line, great, but Isiah had the right idea when he said he has to proceed as if Allan isn't going to be here. I really have to question Allan's decision not to get surgery in the offseason and to train with a high jumper instead of a basketball fitness guru, but I guess that's water under the bridge. Even in the best case scenario, he's probably not going to be a huge factor in anything we do in the future. We just have to sit tight and wait for his massive contract to expire. (That will truly be a day of jubilation, even if we're still over the cap and it's only of symbolic significance-- I'm thinking tickertape parade down Broadway.)
help treat disease with your spare computing power : http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/
diderotn
Posts: 25657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/15/2004
Member: #650
USA
3/11/2005  2:15 PM
Houston???? buy him out...

Herb? if at the end of the season his record is good, I.E. above .500 and most of all, the team looks good in all facades, please keep him...He is a very knowledgeable guy and I do believe that he has the respect of his players...I am actually rooting for him to stay because I think that he can be a very good coach..
The true Knickabocker..........
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
3/11/2005  2:51 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>That's up to Houston. He is holding himself out of games. He is clear to play but does not want to until he is 100%. Whatever that means.

PharZeone - bump dat. It AIN'T up to Houston. The franchise reserves the right to monitor his health and determine what path of re-entry should be taken.

Allan Houston was banking on faith when he turned down surgery. If he comes back this season, do you have faith that he will be an addition or a disruption to the newly-evolving Knicks chemistry?

Shut him down or not?

[Edited by - misterearl on 03/11/2005 09:49:40]
Listen, Houston is still heavily respected by Knick ownership, and the coach. So I think he is treated differently. The Knicks have already stated it is up to him to return this season or not. So it's up to Allan.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
CaZeek
Posts: 20053
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/7/2005
Member: #845
3/11/2005  4:17 PM
I really don't understand the "he should retire for the sake of the franchise" arguments. It's not his responsibility or obligation to give away millions of dollars. They offered him the contract, he accepted it. That's what long term contracts are about. Why did Pedro Martinez demand 4 years? If he and everyone else really thought he'd still be performing at a high level in 4 years, the Mets wouldn't have been the only team to offer him that 4th year, and he wouldn't have cared all that much, because he could just resign after 3 for big money. Allan signed a long term deal, and whether or not he can perform like he could when he signed the deal is meaningless. That's why players sign multi-year contracts. It gives them security, regardless of age-declining performance or injury. Houston doesn't own the Knicks.. he's not the GM. He's just a player. He has his contract, and he has every right to get every dollar owed to him.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
3/11/2005  6:55 PM
Posted by CaZeek:

I really don't understand the "he should retire for the sake of the franchise" arguments. It's not his responsibility or obligation to give away millions of dollars. They offered him the contract, he accepted it. That's what long term contracts are about. Why did Pedro Martinez demand 4 years? If he and everyone else really thought he'd still be performing at a high level in 4 years, the Mets wouldn't have been the only team to offer him that 4th year, and he wouldn't have cared all that much, because he could just resign after 3 for big money. Allan signed a long term deal, and whether or not he can perform like he could when he signed the deal is meaningless. That's why players sign multi-year contracts. It gives them security, regardless of age-declining performance or injury. Houston doesn't own the Knicks.. he's not the GM. He's just a player. He has his contract, and he has every right to get every dollar owed to him.
i agree.
MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK
Posts: 20319
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/15/2004
Member: #737
USA
3/11/2005  7:08 PM
if only houston retired... eh..

i like herb... he's a good coach..
i think we should keep him
he is starting to create strong relationships and finally got the knicks to play a lil defense.
If he stays here for a longer time, i think the knicks might be one of the elite teams in the league
Marbury is finally home at MSG!
nykdunk
Posts: 20629
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #570
USA
3/11/2005  8:25 PM
Brown is a been there done that coach. I believe that we need some freshness and Herb is doing a great job providing that. If Isiah decides to bring in a new coach, I do hope he's younger, more energetic, and more defensively oriented than Herb. Otherwise, keep Herb. He's a former Knick who has first hand experience of what it takes to succeed in NY. And it is showing.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
3/12/2005  12:03 AM
Posted by CaZeek:

It's not his responsibility or obligation to give away millions of dollars.
If there was a way for him to retire and still get his money, only from a different source, will you then be willing to ask him to retire? So he is getting his money either way, should he stay or should he go.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
EnySpree
Posts: 44917
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397
3/12/2005  12:56 AM
Right now I would rather see Herb get the gig with a 2 year contract. Bring Ewing in to be his assistant. Make it a family affair. Let Ewing be there to remind them what it is to be a Knick. Blood sweat and tears.

As far as Houston.........
If people wanna respect the man fine, but he is a distraction right now. Isiah has to move on without him. Houston can expect to fight for minutes just like any other player in practice. He should not get a free ride just because he say's he's finally 100%.

If Houston wanted to win he wouldn't have signed that crazy contract knowing the team will suck and won't have a chance to get better. This idea of him being the third wheel of the guard rotation is dead. He can't be moved and he should not moved because if you can take 20 mill off of the payroll in one shot you gotta do it.

The Knicks are building right now. Houston doesn't have much left age wise without the knee problems. If he can play let him prove he can next year. In the meantime the Knicks gotta get better, so if Isiah gets another swingman or shooting guard too bad. The best player will play. That way if Houston still takes himself out of games no one will care.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC?t=z5pqPMhdiAZNwzcCGMkiFw&s=09
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/12/2005  9:39 AM
You Want a "Younger" Coach?

>>I believe that we need some freshness and Herb is doing a great job providing that. If Isiah decides to bring in a new coach, I do hope he's younger, more energetic, and more defensively oriented than Herb.

NYKdunk - "younger" like who exactly? How much younger ..... 20''s?

Freshness?

Herb has held the team steady despite a 3-18 killer stretch against injuries and player transition. How "fresh" is that?

More "energetic"?

What do you want, a head coach or a mime?

Defensively oriented?

Sheesh, Herb has glued together a team that doesn't have a single legit center. Defensively oriented? Can you please explain that one?

Herb Rocks on til the break of dawn
once a knick always a knick
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
3/12/2005  9:45 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

This idea of him being the third wheel of the guard rotation is dead.
It was barely born.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
What Should The Knicks Do With Allan Houston and Herb Williams?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy