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Change of Topic...... (thoughts on Bruno)
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diderotn
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3/9/2005  11:18 AM
Enough with the hatred for Isiah, and enough with all you wanabees Knickebockers....Let's address one of the problems that we have facing us right now....What in the world is Bruno's duty? He is on the bench as our tallest player, but when we need length, he is never used....If he is not going to play, why not put his behind on IL and activate big youngin JB to replace him? he is a shotblocker, and can at least push people around....the scout report on him has him as a decent rebounder and scorer. I know that he needs time to learn the plays, but if he is as talented as they claim, he should be able to come in and perform...After all, isn't it better to get true playing time in real game??? It doesn't take knowing a system to rebound and block shots...If you have the talent for doing it, it will come naturally...Stop waisting a valuable spot on the bench with Bruno, especially since we hardly ever use him....Last night, after our boys got in foul trouble, we were so small on the court it was pathetic.

Voice your opinions on this subject please....
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diderotn
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3/9/2005  12:08 PM
You see, when it comes to argue something that would help improve our current position, you are all very uniterested...But if I had written a garbage thread, I.E. Isiah is garbage or Marb is a dumb PG or TT is great, you all would have responded.....Typical Knick fans...
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fishmike
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3/9/2005  12:13 PM
nobody responded because Bruno sucks and wont be here next year. Nobody cares. Wake up. What will help the club? how about adding franchise caliber talent in this draft? The kind you get with a top 5 pick. THAT would help.

Bruno isnt even as good as Travis freakin Knight.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
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3/9/2005  12:20 PM
Posted by fishmike:

nobody responded because Bruno sucks and wont be here next year. Nobody cares. Wake up. What will help the club? how about adding franchise caliber talent in this draft? The kind you get with a top 5 pick. THAT would help.

Bruno isnt even as good as Travis freakin Knight.

I think that's his point.

Why is Bruno on the roster if he will never play? Stick him on the IL and lets see what Jackie Bulter can do. Jermaine Jackson was on the same team as him. Jackson is getting nice minutes and playing better than Brewer did at the very least.

The Knicks are playing well now....kind of a rebirth.....so something like this wouldn't really impact the team much, unless Jackie Butler comes in and plays like ZO used to at 6'10".
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diderotn
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3/9/2005  12:20 PM
My point exactly, if we and the organization know that he is sucked, why in the world is he one of our active players? put him in the IR and promote JB so we can have a glance of him....We could have definitely used him versus Orlando, Wizz, etc....Why waiste a good spot if we don't have to??...to those of you who have attended practices, how has this kid (JB) really look? I know that Agwire is working with him, but can't he still work with this kid while he is on the active roster???


Posted by fishmike:

nobody responded because Bruno sucks and wont be here next year. Nobody cares. Wake up. What will help the club? how about adding franchise caliber talent in this draft? The kind you get with a top 5 pick. THAT would help.

Bruno isnt even as good as Travis freakin Knight.
The true Knickabocker..........
crzymdups
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3/9/2005  12:26 PM
they aren't going to promote Butler until he's ready. It wouldn't be fair to anyone. They have 5 PFs, why the rush to add another.
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fishmike
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3/9/2005  12:27 PM
I dont know... Ask Isiah. Ask him about Baker while your at it. Think roster spots are important? Sorry to hear that. Sorry if you were hoping to see what a guy like Butler could do, or our first rounders next year for that matter.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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3/9/2005  12:30 PM
how do figure that he is a PF? Bruno is not a PF, I want JB promoted to replace Bruno who is currently on the bench as a replacement at Center...


Posted by crzymdups:

they aren't going to promote Butler until he's ready. It wouldn't be fair to anyone. They have 5 PFs, why the rush to add another.
The true Knickabocker..........
crzymdups
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3/9/2005  12:45 PM
Posted by diderotn:

how do figure that he is a PF? Bruno is not a PF, I want JB promoted to replace Bruno who is currently on the bench as a replacement at Center...


Posted by crzymdups:

they aren't going to promote Butler until he's ready. It wouldn't be fair to anyone. They have 5 PFs, why the rush to add another.

He's 6'10" and 19 years old, so he's either a PF or yet another undersized position player at center. Take your pick. I want to take a look at him too. But coming from the someone who wants to make a playoff run, why would they give this kid minutes? If you really wanted to see what this kid could do, you should be rooting to tank for a pick and start Butler, Sweetney, Ariza. It may come to that by April anyway.
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diderotn
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3/9/2005  12:46 PM
Baker didn't play because Lenny didn't have any use for him....JB is new, and most of all since we acquired him we've been winning...He and the rest of the new guys are nothing but good luck so far....



Posted by fishmike:

I dont know... Ask Isiah. Ask him about Baker while your at it. Think roster spots are important? Sorry to hear that. Sorry if you were hoping to see what a guy like Butler could do, or our first rounders next year for that matter.
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diderotn
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3/9/2005  12:57 PM
Hey man! you must live everyday as it is the last day...Nothing is a guaraty in this world...Remember big country? He was a lottery pick too, but where is he at now???? I despise folks that think that we should tank the season....To me, it is a cowardly act....Newyorkers fight to survive or succeed...this isn't cleveland or Washinton....




He's 6'10" and 19 years old, so he's either a PF or yet another undersized position player at center. Take your pick. I want to take a look at him too. But coming from the someone who wants to make a playoff run, why would they give this kid minutes? If you really wanted to see what this kid could do, you should be rooting to tank for a pick and start Butler, Sweetney, Ariza. It may come to that by April anyway.
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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3/9/2005  1:15 PM
this isn't cleveland or Washinton....
Your very right there... those teams have 20 something year old players like Lebron James and Gilbert Arenas. Those teams are also playoff bound.

Good point, we are nothing like those teams
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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3/9/2005  1:20 PM
Fish! u know that I have mad respect for u, but what in the world is your problem with what we have done so far? Washington wouldn't have been a playoffs team if it wasn't for the addition of Jamison, and guess what, it took Ernie about two years to land him in a Wiz uniform...Arenas didn't join the Wiz until after Jordan cleaned up their cap space....Give Isiah time, he will do the same exact thing,,,The Wizz situation was no where near as bad as what Isiah has inheritted.....Be fair on your judgements..Isiah is doing his utmost to acquire talents...with time, we will have a cap friendly team, and most of all, we will have a franchise player to build around...


Posted by fishmike:
this isn't cleveland or Washinton....
Your very right there... those teams have 20 something year old players like Lebron James and Gilbert Arenas. Those teams are also playoff bound.

Good point, we are nothing like those teams
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fishmike
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3/9/2005  1:28 PM
I had all the patience in the world up until his last two trades. We were one year away from really changing our roster and going from an old team to a younger one. Instead of using Nazr, Vin and Moochie to get younger guys he opted to add 2 long term players that by NBA stardards are OLD and on the downside of their career.

Just to be clear what is the line in the sand when I can start to be impatient? How many bad deals is Isiah allowed to make? You know how they traded for Jamison? Because they had a high pick to use as leverage in a trade.

I'm not talking about tanking for losses. I'm talking about getting Ariza and Sweetney starters minutes. I'm talking about seeing Jackie Butler play for 20 minutes a night and see what we have. If we win games thats GREAT. If we dont then we learn more about the young players on our team and we get GREAT leverage because we have a high pick.

THATS what good responsible teams do. They PLAN.

Hey... MAybe Isiah's plan really is 3 years in the making. Thats cool, I hope there is one. But for once wouldnt it be nice to actually see something tangible rather than hope?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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3/9/2005  1:40 PM
As you can see, not all young guys can come in this league and produce right away...What Isiah has done is exactly the right way. Bring in Veterans to teach the young boys that we are about to acquire...You can't tell me that Ariza can't learn a thing or two from Penny; you can't tell me that Crawf can't learn a thing or two from Houston; you can't tell me that Sweet or JB can't learn a thing or two from Malik and Mo. Bottom line is this, when you have kids with no role models to follow, they often do really poor in this league...Not every kid is like Lebron.....We need to get young, but we also have to compete to show or teach our youth about winning....
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Bonn1997
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3/9/2005  1:49 PM
We were one year away from really changing our roster and going from an old team to a younger one.
So you wanted the team to get younger; Isiah gets two first round draft picks; and now you're complaining that the team is going to be older. What do you think he plans to draft some 40 year olds or something??
fishmike
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3/9/2005  2:06 PM
dido.. thats a fair point and I agree with you 100%
no good team doesnt have veterans. So why do we need 10? Look at KT, JYD and Penny. Especially JYD and KT are two NBA vets that have really had solid careers through hard work and hard play. Why did we need Mo Taylor and Rose?

I should hope the young guys DO learn from watching them because thats all they will get a chance to do.. watch. These guys are going to be stuck like MS was his rookie year on IR. Thats what happens. Coaches like to play vets that know the game. They want to win.

Look at the roster next year.. its a major problem and please spare me from the "Isiah will waive his magic wand and fix it" speach
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Masterplan
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3/9/2005  2:19 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
We were one year away from really changing our roster and going from an old team to a younger one.
So you wanted the team to get younger; Isiah gets two first round draft picks; and now you're complaining that the team is going to be older. What do you think he plans to draft some 40 year olds or something??

actually, he could draft a 60 yer old- larry brown. so that's one waste of a shot at youth. or, trade the picks for vets- anyone think the sixers will be trying to dump webber by draft day? until the deadline deals, i wouldn't have expected it of IT, but with pickups like mo taylor i'm not so sure anymore.

i think we knick fans have a right to some impatience. i'm not saying expect a contender within a season or two or axe the GM. the problem is, we were willing to wait out moochie and baker and see what they would turn in to. turns out it was mo taylor, meaning we have to be patient for three more years. it's a bummer. i'll gut it out; don't want to speak for fish or anyone else but i have a feeling he will too. but it's disappointing and makes me worry a bit.
diderotn
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3/9/2005  2:22 PM
Fish! I remember early on when you had your good senses how much you praised the administration for giving Sweetney a chance to play..what happened to you now? Isiah, unlike other GM has put together a string of young talents that will be productive for the next 10 years at least...He has put us in a position where we will be able to add even more next season....Now, is it Isiah's fault that Houston has the organization locked up over the cap until 2007? He has cleaned house since his arrival, and he will continue to do so....As for guys like Penny, TT, and others, I am confident that Isiah will find a way to use them wisely...a little patience will do you well my friend...Bottom line is this, we now have a foundation, we are in the process of building the first floor, by next season, we will add the roof...Relax my friend, you have to crawl to walk.....


Posted by fishmike:

dido.. thats a fair point and I agree with you 100%
no good team doesnt have veterans. So why do we need 10? Look at KT, JYD and Penny. Especially JYD and KT are two NBA vets that have really had solid careers through hard work and hard play. Why did we need Mo Taylor and Rose?

I should hope the young guys DO learn from watching them because thats all they will get a chance to do.. watch. These guys are going to be stuck like MS was his rookie year on IR. Thats what happens. Coaches like to play vets that know the game. They want to win.

Look at the roster next year.. its a major problem and please spare me from the "Isiah will waive his magic wand and fix it" speach
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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3/9/2005  2:28 PM
Dido... he hasnt cleaned house.. the house is full. Now its full of other team's dirty laundry instead of Layden's.

As for Sweetney of course I praised that move. Do you think the reason he only played 15 minutes and sat out after picking up his 4th foul was because we had Rose and Taylor to go to?

I hope Isiah wakes up.. his last two moves are just scary. They are Laydenesque. I was very happy with him up until that point. Now I am worried because he's given me reason to worry. What can I say... ISiah has been average. The roster has gotten better (I think) but the team hasnt.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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