The 2 big threads (Isiah genius! Isiah disaster!) have got me to thinking a little, and I do believe that there needs to be a little more thought and discussion into what Isiah's plan is before we can criticize his moves. We all have our own idea about how each of the individual moves Isiah has gone, but unless they are taken in context of the big picture the arguments are just hot air. For the sake of the argument, I am going to assume that Isiah DOES have a plan, otherwise we are all fools (some of us are already fools on a day-to-day basis, but that’s another discussion).

Backdrop/assumptions: Isiah has been on a championship team and knows the different types of elements that are necessary to win. I think we call all agree on a few: Team defense, one superstar supported by at least one+ all-stars, inside/outside offensive balance, bench, luck, coach with the systems that enhances his current crop of players, GM/owner who supports the organization from top to bottom.

I think that Isiah did have a short-term goal of bringing interest back to the Garden; witness: Marbury. All talking points should start thereafter. I would also note that plans do change and are always finessed along the way, but the end goal is and has probably been the same.

These are the 2 posts that got me thinking. I’ll post my ideas on what I think Isiah’s long-term plan is.

DISCUSS.

Posted by tomverve:

Now, let's consider Taylor in particular. With the Rose trade, we already had 4 PFs, so why add another one? Isiah could have packed his bags and called it a day. However, the reason adding Taylor is not really all that bad is because he brings something the team has desperately needed all season, low post scoring. I don't mean the random garbage points Nazr would get; I mean, run a play, dump the ball in the post, and have your PF/C score on his man with his back to the basket low post scoring. Of the four PFs, only Sweetney brought that aspect of the game. Sweets is getting better by the game, but it seems pretty clear that he's not yet in Mo T's class. Taylor is just a lot more versatile and wilely at this point in their respective careers. So sure, we add another PF, but in so doing we add our best low post player and probably our second best overall go-to scorer. So there are lots of positives here to weigh against the negatives. People seem to be focusing on the perceived magnitude of all the bad aspects of these trades, as opposed to considering how the positives balance them out. On this team, which has lacked consistent scoring (and low post scoring in particular) all season, Mo T's offense is a pretty considerable positive. Since his strength directly addresses a big team weakness (no, not our biggest, but we clearly have more than one team weakness), I think a pretty good case can be made that his acquisition was justified, despite all the negatives.

Posted by fishmike:

what we need is great planning and we havent had that since Ernie was here. To me Mo Taylor and Rose isnt good planning but I still havent turned in my Knick card.

Martin.. I agree with your praise of him and what he brings.

What I am HOPING is this to Dolan:
That Isiah has said that for the next 2-3 years the Knicks will be be fairly competitive. At least enough to keep the fan base and season ticket sales. During those 2-3 year using the draft and hopefully getting a little lucky with (Dermarr Johnson, Jackie Butler) we will have a core of 6-7 players with reasonable contracts in their 20s. Also after that 2-3 year period we will be able to drop payroll as guys like Penny, Shandon, Houston, JYD, and TT will be allowed to just walk into the sunset (Shandon is already in Mia).

At that time we will be in position to trade for another (or first) superstar using an expiring contract and draft picks and young players and still have a payroll under $70mm. If that opportunity isnt there then we will have a core of good young players moving forward.

I hope thats the gig... its a lot to ask

I agree with Martin that the plan has been finessed a few times. The starting point was to get Marbury and get fan interest back. His next goal, originally, I believe, was to get Sheed.

When that didn't work (thanks to Ainge) and Houston went down, the plan changed and he made a trade for the future, in getting TThomas and Nazr. Obviously that trade had mixed results. TThomas has been maddeningly inconsistant and Nazr was solid until he strained his groin.

I'm a fan of the Craw move over the summer. I think you had to take a gamble on the young all-star prospect. Like many have said, it's the equivalent of overpaying for a polished lotto pick. But it's a reasonable deal and it cleared out dead wood on the roster. The next big domino in the summer was the Dampier trade that didn't go down. Turns out, that might have been for the best. Can you imagine if Damps was here for 6 years, $72 million? People would kill Zeke. Damps isn't a championship piece, he's just not that type of player. Zeke got lucky there.

I think the Damps debacle and the slow development of Nazr made Zeke change his thinking and realize how hard it is to acquire a quality big. Hence the deals for draft picks and overpaying to look at Mo Taylor. Zeke knows Mo from Detroit (Mo was a prep and college star there as Zeke wound down his Pistons career), and was willing to see if his post offense could be a piece of a winning team. I don't like the deal, but there is sense behind it. Especially when you see Mo in the post: he's pretty slick down there.

So, Zeke has acknowledged the importance of the draft after trying and failing to acquire a bona fide all-star level talented big to complement Marbury (Sheed, Walker, Dampier). And the draft also seems to be his strong suit: obviously, his best moment with the Knicks has been the Ariza pick (some would say Marbs, but obviously a bunch of people question that trade). He pulled a major rotation player out of thin air with Ariza and hopes to do so again with the two late first round picks.

I believe Zeke's goal has changed to grabbing an impact big and some rotation players out of the draft. I don't believe he'll ever truly tank to the tune of 20 wins or something to get that talent, he knows it's New York and that kind of losing does irreperable damage to any core you already have intact. So, he's trying to maintain a competitive atmosphere and hoping to strike gold in the draft. He does also have two huge expiring deals this summer to work with, or to let walk should the draft work out.

I think this summer is where we'll begin to see whether Zeke is setting the team up for success or on his way out of town.

>>isiah went from B+ to C- within the past two weeks. he needs to get an A++++ this draft to make up for it.

djsnyc - how many plus signs was that exactly? Four?

Isiah must need to draft the next Shaq to receive your approval

Who are you expecting..... Bill Russell?

By he way, the team has been playing more diverse ball and winning since
the infamous Isiah Haterade (that nearly everyone drank) Trade.

Just thought you might wanna know.

If two first round picks weren't enough, then how much should we have gotten for Nazy??
You need *diverse* assets going into the offseason. It's great to have multiple draft picks plus expiring contracts. You'll need both to pull off another Marbury-type trade, which I highly suspect Isiah is planning to do. The team now has comparable (if not better) trade assets to what it had when it got Marbury

Posted by newyorknewyork:

I like the 4 picks in the next 2yrs, Marbury, Craw, Reezy, Sweetney,(Butler wait and see)

I don't like the 5pfs and no center, Inconsistant outside shooting, No shotblocking.

We have some pieces to make moves. If we can continue to focus on the development of the 5 above. And use the pieces we do have to balance the roster and fill in needs then we can be in good shape.

If Isiah trades picks and youngins for past there prime vets then were in trouble.

dont forget no perimeter D!

I think the best way to judge a GM's work is by the wins.

So far we have seen a total and miserable failure.

I'm not saying this team should be a 50 win team, but with the amount of money spent, draft picks and prospects moved, a .500 would be the minimum benchmark.

Instead we see a 9 games below .500 monstrosity with not a single center on the roster, even more over the hill, overpaid bums, and yet another goach who should not be coaching at all.

[Edited by - simrud on 03/08/2005 18:47:46]

Posted by simrud:

I think the best way to judge a GM's work is by the wins.

So far we have seen a total and miserable failure.

I'm not saying this team should be a 50 win team, but with the amount of money spent, draft picks and prospects moved, a .500 would be the minimum benchmark.

Instead we see a 9 games below .500 monstrosity with not a single center on the roster, even more over the hill, overpaid bums, and yet another goach who should not be coaching at all.

[Edited by - simrud on 03/08/2005 18:47:46]

dude, seriously, this is a pansey answer. So you are judging Isiah by the talent and contracts that Layden and Dolan left? Really, Isiah has started to make moves and such, so you can judge him on that, but injuries, coaches and players are what makes wins and losses, not the GM. All the GM can do is give you a chance or not, and that's after a GM is given a fair shake at doing what he is hired to do.

Other then KT and Sweetney who btw are doing good, name one playe that is Layden's on the roster.

Its time to put Layden to rest on the forum, he is gone, he is not responsible for 99% of the team.

And the last time I checked, the GM picks the coach, too, and that has been one of IT's beiggest blunders every time he did so far.

Other then KT and Sweetney who btw are doing good, name one playe that is Layden's on the roster.

Allan Houston?

Posted by simrud:

Other then KT and Sweetney who btw are doing good, name one playe that is Layden's on the roster.

Its time to put Layden to rest on the forum, he is gone, he is not responsible for 99% of the team.

And the last time I checked, the GM picks the coach, too, and that has been one of IT's beiggest blunders every time he did so far.

Wilkens did not fit. So what? He was let go and the Knicks now have a new coach. Do you really think that each and every Isiah move was going to be a miracle?