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Why not trade ariza or sweetny with tim or penny
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knicks1248
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3/6/2005  4:54 PM
Since eveybody keeps talking about getting younger and stephs best days are here and now, why not trade one of our young guy's ( who IMO, have at least 3 more season to even be consider an all star) for a guy who will help us right now.

Lets face it Detriot, SA, LA, Bulls, Utah, Knicks, Nets, Indi, all these teams with the exception of the nets who got plastered in the finals have one thing in common, they alll went to the finals with only one young effective player. None of this teams had 2 year pro players who had any significant impact .

While you may think getting a high draft picks works for the future, just think about the high picks that have come out in the top 7, ( other the TD, and cassel)) in the last 10 seasons that have won a ring, or even been in the finals. You may say Rj and kmart, but they got swept, which means they hardly had an impact.

My point is we need to trade our picks with Sweetny or ariza, for a solid front court, prefably a center or PF.
Zach,Eddy, brand, tyson chandler, Troy murph , Dunlevy, gasol.These are the type of players we should be focusing on getting.

I'm not for waiting around to see if a guy will develope into anything 5 years down the line, I don't want be sitting here year after year saying "play the young guys, get them some expierence, OH.. he's just young he will get better". JC has been in the league 4 seasons now, and we are still saying that about him.

Remeber when the lakers had Nick Van excel, eddie jones, shaq and Kobe, they got knocked out in the first round. I could go down the list of young teams that didn't have a clue once the playoffs started.

Maybe some of you will get my point.
ES
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gunsnewing
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3/6/2005  5:09 PM
the only player worth trading all those guys for is Gasol. And there's no way Memphis will ever trade him especially when they're gonna lose Swift. Even Brand is not worth it cos he's not a center.

Pau Gasol is signed through 2011. I would love to have him at some point if Memphis wants to pull a Phoenix and get under the cap immediately to build a championship contender.
knicks1248
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3/6/2005  5:48 PM
It's not impossibe to try and get these guy's.
I think about the trades we made to get to the finals in 99

Allan, spree, camby, LJ, kt. These guy's were relatively young and were on the up and up of there career's.
Crawford was a nice pck up. We need guy's that are just getting into there first real contract after there 3 year rookie stint.

It's all about chemistry and balance. Youth gets us 30 win seasons for years to come.

If anybody feels sweetny and ariza are going to be here for the long haul, your kidding yourself, neither are franchise players which makes them totaly expendable.

Look at gilbert arenas, why would GS let him go then trade for BD a year later, Why did portland trade Oneal, . Are they franchise players, maybe but the point is there not with the team that drafted them. So to say sweetny and ariza is untradable is absolutely ridiculous.
ES
BRIGGS
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3/6/2005  6:39 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

It's not impossibe to try and get these guy's.
I think about the trades we made to get to the finals in 99

Allan, spree, camby, LJ, kt. These guy's were relatively young and were on the up and up of there career's.
Crawford was a nice pck up. We need guy's that are just getting into there first real contract after there 3 year rookie stint.

It's all about chemistry and balance. Youth gets us 30 win seasons for years to come.

If anybody feels sweetny and ariza are going to be here for the long haul, your kidding yourself, neither are franchise players which makes them totaly expendable.

Look at gilbert arenas, why would GS let him go then trade for BD a year later, Why did portland trade Oneal, . Are they franchise players, maybe but the point is there not with the team that drafted them. So to say sweetny and ariza is untradable is absolutely ridiculous.

absolute dumbest post. 3 youngest teams in the league have winning records, one of them is a title contender

we have had our various vets over the last few years and we have been perenial 30 game winners. You know why-collecting 30 YO+ players is a good way to make sure you always have injuries, you never have fresh legs back to back,etc.. Its really just a dumb thought process and it's WRONG.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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3/6/2005  6:43 PM
let me add to that, the bulls drafted Scottie Pippen Horace Grant,MJ, Toni Kukoc and most of their role players and NONE of them were number 1 picks.

Most grat teams have a built foundation through the draft. The 90 Knicks did. The Pacers, you can go down the list.

just playing mix and match, which max contract I can acquire next isnt a sound business plan in the nBA--all it does is continue to bloat the cap
RIP Crushalot😞
s3231
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3/6/2005  6:47 PM
Trading young talent like Ariza or Sweets is a Layden move and that is why we are in this bad situation to begin with. We cannot trade our young talent to win now because lets face it, we can't win now anyway. If our goal is to win a championship, we have to make this team a nice pipeline for young talent. People have bashed Isiah a lot lately, but one thing he has done nicely is the fact that he has established three young players into our core (Sweets, Crawford, Ariza). We need more young talent if we want to get to the next level. I've said it a long time ago and I will say it again, what the Dallas Mavericks have done should be the model for what we should do.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
djsunyc
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3/6/2005  6:47 PM
the only way to get that franchise player in the nba is by either drafting them or signing them. obviously we can't sign them, so the only other way is drafting them.

the mavs can operate at a similar $$ level b/c they got dirk nowitski. duncan, shaq, kobe, olajuwan, ewing, jordan...the list goes on and on and on and on. only shaq wasn't drafted by the team he wont the title with. detroit last year was the EXCEPTION and most of them were lottery picks.

the draft is how you build a team. making trades are ways to add pieces to the foundation you already have. if isiah trades tim and/or penny - this team is done till 2010 unless it lands a top 3 pick.
gunsnewing
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3/6/2005  6:57 PM
Idiana didn't draft J'neal. They were very smart and I think not trading for Cwebb who will make 20mil as a 35yr old gimp was smart. J'neal was also the 17th pick. I think Isiah will land a young player like that who for whatever reason needs a change of scenery. All they need to do is take bad contracts back.

Anyway since the draft is your philosophy we're the 6th or 7th worst team in the league so we will get a good player out of this draft.
Bonn1997
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3/6/2005  7:54 PM
Many people were against the idea of including Lampe and Frank Williams (who at the time was averaging about 14 PPG as a starter) in the Marbury trade. I'm NOT looking to trade Ariza or Sweetney but if including them in a package will allow us to get a BETTER young player, I'd do it. No one on this team (including Marbury, BTW) is untradeable if the right offer is on the table.
JUNKyardKNICK13
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3/6/2005  10:03 PM
Sweet's still a great post player. To let him go or Ariza (the youth of the team) would be a huge mistake.
I thought the sloagan was All Ball, not All Lottery.
knicks1248
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3/6/2005  11:51 PM
Many people were against the idea of including Lampe and Frank Williams (who at the time was averaging about 14 PPG as a starter) in the Marbury trade. I'm NOT looking to trade Ariza or Sweetney but if including them in a package will allow us to get a BETTER young player, I'd do it. No one on this team (including Marbury, BTW) is untradeable if the right offer is on the table.


Eaxctly my point...





let me add to that, the bulls drafted Scottie Pippen Horace Grant,MJ, Toni Kukoc and most of their role players and NONE of them were number 1 picks.

Mike waited how long to get a ring.....

Wake up and look around the league.. how many franchise players are there, and how many were drafted by there current team. You go to be silly to think any Gm is going to sit throught 5 years of losing to get that franchis player to be good enough to take his team to a championship.

Suns, Miami, seattle, Sa. There young but the core guy's have been in the league, Shaq, ray allan, nash, rashard, marion, eddie jones, tim duncun, just to name a few. Aside from Miami, and SA, the rest of those teams are playoff contenders.

The suns, heat and seattle have been good this year due to the player they have aquried. Wade and amare came out of the gate as starters/ impact players.

Sweetny Is nice but if i can get Paul gasol, marion, rashard lewis, type of player, why wouldn't I.
Had dice been healthy I would do that trade for camby in a minute.
ES
Nalod
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3/7/2005  9:37 AM
those teams had cap room to restructure their rosters!

we don't have enough assets or cap flex to create kind of team you want.

It not even about getting under the cap, but having the right kind of players to move. Face it, PHX was able to marry Step and Penny and got basically nothing in return, execpt in the off season then got what they needed to suit their style!

we could dump Allan with Sweets to a team able to take on a huge deal. Not many teams can or will do this. We are rare this way. But since we are so far over the cap, it does not matter!

We have to keep drafting players and cultivate to either play them, or use them to trade.

Miami needed to gut their team to draft well and trade the free agents (odom) used in the Shaq deal.
knicks1248
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3/7/2005  10:19 AM
We have to keep drafting players and cultivate to either play them, or use them to trade.

Miami needed to gut their team to draft well and trade the free agents (odom) used in the Shaq deal.


No matter how you look at it, if were over the cap the only way to get the type of players we want and need is through trades and drafting. the only reason we hate layden so much is the fact that he never seem to compliment a trade with a trade.

IT got taylor and rose ( it seems) Is flexiblity. TT is sure to be traded this summer, Taylor despite is big contract( see eisley) could be a throw in.
I'm still baffled has to how people think large contracts are untradable, especially when you have draft picks to compliment them.
ES
bernard
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3/7/2005  10:32 AM
Nobody, IMO, on the Knicks is untradeable. We're not one or two pieces away from a title. We're one or two pieces away from making the playoffs in the pathetic east. So, if the right deal is available and it includes Sweet or Ariza, or even both, then we make it. BUT, the right deal means getting a young stud or 2 who we feel has more potential than either of those guys. Cannot trade either of them for someone over 25. In fact, I don't think we should make any trade for someone over 25 unless we're getting rid of someone older and/or shortening our contract obligation. Briggs is right. Older is not better in the NBA, especially for a team that's going to need 2 or 3 years to contend.
TMS
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3/7/2005  11:09 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

let me add to that, the bulls drafted Scottie Pippen Horace Grant,MJ, Toni Kukoc and most of their role players and NONE of them were number 1 picks.

Most grat teams have a built foundation through the draft. The 90 Knicks did. The Pacers, you can go down the list.

just playing mix and match, which max contract I can acquire next isnt a sound business plan in the nBA--all it does is continue to bloat the cap

then there's the alternate plan of winning a title by putting a good team together through trades & smart FA signings like the Pistons did last year...the only significant player on that squad that they actually drafted was Tayshaun Prince...it's not all cut & dry that you absolutely have to build a championship contender through the draft, though obviously smart draft choices is always important to any team's future.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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3/7/2005  11:25 AM
Posted by JUNKyardKNICK13:

Sweet's still a great post player. To let him go or Ariza (the youth of the team) would be a huge mistake.
People were saying that a year ago about Lampe and Frank Williams. No matter how attached you grow to any player on the team, you have to be willing to trade him in the right deal.
Pharzeone
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3/7/2005  11:36 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by JUNKyardKNICK13:

Sweet's still a great post player. To let him go or Ariza (the youth of the team) would be a huge mistake.
People were saying that a year ago about Lampe and Frank Williams. No matter how attached you grow to any player on the team, you have to be willing to trade him in the right deal.
This is a silly post. You are willing to trade guys but not mention who you are willing to trade them for. Since we are playing this game, why not mention who you want to trade them for. To say the "right deal" is pointless. What is the "right deal"?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Allanfan20
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3/7/2005  1:10 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by JUNKyardKNICK13:

Sweet's still a great post player. To let him go or Ariza (the youth of the team) would be a huge mistake.
People were saying that a year ago about Lampe and Frank Williams. No matter how attached you grow to any player on the team, you have to be willing to trade him in the right deal.

And that is why, my friend, I think it's really bad for the team that Isiah and Marbury are in bed together.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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3/7/2005  2:41 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by JUNKyardKNICK13:

Sweet's still a great post player. To let him go or Ariza (the youth of the team) would be a huge mistake.
People were saying that a year ago about Lampe and Frank Williams. No matter how attached you grow to any player on the team, you have to be willing to trade him in the right deal.

And that is why, my friend, I think it's really bad for the team that Isiah and Marbury are in bed together.
First, that's a completely different topic. That has nothing to do with the mere fact that people weren't unhappy to trade Lampe and Frank for Marbury. But as to your comment: Time will tell whether it's good or bad that they're close. There are obvious reasons why it *could* be good. We also know that Isiah's not afraid to severely criticize Marbury, even publicly. (E.g., when he told Marbury at one point in the season that his defense was the worst among PGs in the league.)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/07/2005 14:43:03]
Nalod
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3/7/2005  2:46 PM
Marbs really does not have much trade value.

I would rather go with plan "A" which is the make his teamates "better" not "bitter"!

KT and Marts for Odom? Yeah, I like it, but its not real!
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