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jackie butler was a FREE first round pick
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djsunyc
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3/3/2005  11:59 AM
this is from an interview with his former coach.
"Yeah, he's a project, but a good project," Bergman said. "He has a world of potential. I don't think there's any question he's an NBA player."

The Knicks signed the raw 19-year-old Butler to help them replace Mohammed in the middle, but he may not play at all this year. As expected, the Knicks placed him on the injured list yesterday with a predictable "sore right knee."

"My understanding is that the Knicks want to put him on the injured list and bring him in next year," Bergman said. "They want to work him out, get him in shape, have him hit the weights, and basically learn the game. I think that's going to help him a lot because he needs time to play against good players, He really hasn't had a chance to do that."

Bergman described Butler as a strong shooter from 18 feet in, and said he has a remarkably soft touch for a big man, and isn't shy about using the glass.

"He doesn't play like a 19-year-old," Bergman said.

We won't be able to see that, though, for quite some time.
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Bonn1997
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3/3/2005  12:15 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

this is from an interview with his former coach.
"Yeah, he's a project, but a good project," Bergman said. "He has a world of potential. I don't think there's any question he's an NBA player."

The Knicks signed the raw 19-year-old Butler to help them replace Mohammed in the middle, but he may not play at all this year. As expected, the Knicks placed him on the injured list yesterday with a predictable "sore right knee."

"My understanding is that the Knicks want to put him on the injured list and bring him in next year," Bergman said. "They want to work him out, get him in shape, have him hit the weights, and basically learn the game. I think that's going to help him a lot because he needs time to play against good players, He really hasn't had a chance to do that."

Bergman described Butler as a strong shooter from 18 feet in, and said he has a remarkably soft touch for a big man, and isn't shy about using the glass.

"He doesn't play like a 19-year-old," Bergman said.

We won't be able to see that, though, for quite some time.
It's good to have him, but it's not the same as a 1st round pick. First round picks get great rookie contracts. If we want to keep this guy and get his Bird rights, eventually we'll have to dip into the MLE (unless he signs for the league min for 3 straight years). I'm still glad Isiah's targetting this type of player.
fishmike
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3/3/2005  12:16 PM
I have heard such good things about him. When you look at his circumstances its pretty impressive. I hope we give him a Lampe type deal. 3 years $2.4mm... something around 800k a year where you get his Bird rights.

We have no roster spots if we draft 2-3 players so I have NO problem with splitting up the MLE to lock up Butler and Ariza to smaller 2-3 years. Butler 3 years 2.4mm and Ariza 3 years $6mm. Thats the payscale if Ariza was drafted in the teens and Butler at the end of the first round.

If we draft Brigg's guy Diaz then you have Butler, Sweetney, Ariza and Diaz essentially in their rookie deals for the next couple years which is pretty good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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3/3/2005  12:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

then you have Butler, Sweetney, Ariza and Diaz essentially in their rookie deals for the next couple years which is pretty good.

that's ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. after 15 years of how NOT to use the draft i couldn't have even fathomed something like this. hopefully aguirre thinks he can do something with this kid. AND we also have that late first rounder and 2nd rounder as well.

currently we have 11 under contract next season.

with ariza, butler, and the 2 picks, it gives us 15 if the 2nd rounder makes it. are we allowed to have that many under contract (12 active, 3 on IR)?
nyk4ever
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3/3/2005  12:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:

then you have Butler, Sweetney, Ariza and Diaz essentially in their rookie deals for the next couple years which is pretty good.

that's ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. after 15 years of how NOT to use the draft i couldn't have even fathomed something like this. hopefully aguirre thinks he can do something with this kid. AND we also have that late first rounder and 2nd rounder as well.

currently we have 11 under contract next season.

with ariza, butler, and the 2 picks, it gives us 15 if the 2nd rounder makes it. are we allowed to have that many under contract (12 active, 3 on IR)?

Yes, 15 is the maximum amount of players you may can have under contract. And its split up just the way you said, 12 on active roster, 3 on IR.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
fishmike
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3/3/2005  12:41 PM
you hear the right things.. get him in practice, hit the weight room, get accustomed to what it means to be an NBA player, and come back next year at age 20 with a pretty good idea whats expected of him.

Its going to be hard not to use the first #1 on wing player. We need a guard or SF with Penny and TT on the way out at the end of next year.

I would use the late #1 on a Euro kid that cant come over right away like the Spurs did w/ Ginobili or the Nets w/ Krstic.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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3/3/2005  1:44 PM
The league is getting smarter by scouting and invest a lot more in the European league. Those boys are more NBA ready than most of the H/S and college players that we have here in the states...Isiah knows that they are much more prepared as far as fundamentals, and I expect for him to invest heavily two of his draft picks in a couple of europeans. I am very happy that he chose Butler, I don't know much about the kid, but all the reviews that I have read so far have said nothing but good things about him. The Knicks deserve a couple of brakes, since they have the largest payroll in the league. Ariza, Sweet, and Butler are just what the doctor has prescribed. Once Houston is gone, it will create rooms for even better things...
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bernard
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3/3/2005  1:53 PM
I'm hoping everyone's optimism on Butler is warranted, but I'm skeptical. To state the obvious: He didn't make the TWolves. They saw his body, his soft touch, etc. Even so, they apparently didn't think he was a worthwhile risk to keep around. Then, he played in the CBA and no one picked him up. We're not the only team who watched him play and saw his numbers.

Listen, I'm hoping he proves me wrong, and I don't mind us taking a flier on the kid, but let's be realistic. That's what it is. A longshot. Sometimes they pay out, more often, they don't. No one should be expecting he'll crack the rotation in the next year or two. If he does, it's a bonus.
djsunyc
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3/3/2005  1:59 PM
Posted by bernard:

I'm hoping everyone's optimism on Butler is warranted, but I'm skeptical. To state the obvious: He didn't make the TWolves. They saw his body, his soft touch, etc. Even so, they apparently didn't think he was a worthwhile risk to keep around. Then, he played in the CBA and no one picked him up. We're not the only team who watched him play and saw his numbers.

Listen, I'm hoping he proves me wrong, and I don't mind us taking a flier on the kid, but let's be realistic. That's what it is. A longshot. Sometimes they pay out, more often, they don't. No one should be expecting he'll crack the rotation in the next year or two. If he does, it's a bonus.

wolves were in a completely different situation. they had title aspirations and probably didn't want to use that last roster spot on a 19 year old when they could've added a veteran along the way for a championship run.

nobody thinks this guy is going to be the savior, but like we've all said, it's a free late 1st round draft pick. nobody drafted is guaranteed to be good, but it's something a team like ours needs. all signs are positive about him so far.
diderotn
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3/3/2005  2:00 PM
As long as he really want it, he will make it. He just has to take advantage of his opportunities....Just like Sweetney...
The true Knickabocker..........
Bonn1997
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3/3/2005  2:01 PM
"My understanding is that the Knicks want to put him on the injured list and bring him in next year," Bergman said. "They want to work him out, get him in shape, have him hit the weights, and basically learn the game.
He was putting up 20/10 in the CBA and they don't think he's even ready for a couple of minutes in the NBA? I know the CBA is much lower in talent than the NBA, but I'm still a little surprised.
fishmike
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3/3/2005  2:01 PM
I saw his summer league stats with Sota.. he didnt get a lot of minutes, beyond that I dont know why. Guy slip through the cracks every year for whatever reason. Sometimes they just arent ready and need a wake up call. This kid was 18-19 last summer, who knows where he was at. Maybe he needed to fail first. Maybe he just sucks.

I followed James Lang after Briggs mentioned him and he was a 2nd rounder that couldnt stick. He got another SL invite but couldnt keep his weight down and wasnt playing pro ball. This kid (Butler) did the opposite. Went to the CBA where he probably made about $10k for 30 something games and he dominate the league at 19 years old. I think he won conference player of the month once and week 3x
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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3/3/2005  2:06 PM
Posted by diderotn:

As long as he really want it, he will make it.

diderotn is the big aristotle of ulitmateknicks.com
diderotn
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3/3/2005  2:15 PM
I just like to give people a chance to fail, that is all. how do we know if this kid will not grow into a 6'11/7' player in a couple of years? how do we know if he is not our Center of the future? I am sure that Isiah knows something about this kid, because if he didn't, he wouldn't sign him for the remainder of the season....
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crzymdups
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3/3/2005  2:17 PM
Posted by fishmike:

If we draft Brigg's guy Diaz then you have Butler, Sweetney, Ariza and Diaz essentially in their rookie deals for the next couple years which is pretty good.


The only problem with that is every single one of those guys is undersized at their natural position. Even Ariza, but that's more a muscle mass thing.
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Nalod
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3/3/2005  3:22 PM
We worried about his bird rights already?

If we can pay off Shandon 20 mil to NOT play here, we can find money for these guys to stay!

Do we have to call him "JACKIE"? That name does not strike fear in the hearts of men!

Masterplan
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3/3/2005  3:26 PM
right now, we're best off with KT at center, best pick and roll combo in the league with marbury... but if we hit even one more substantial losing streak, get butler off the IR and let's see him in bursts for the rest of the season. as we saw with sweetney, his biggest strides were made when he was a part of the rotation, practice can only do so much.
Masterplan
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3/3/2005  3:28 PM
Posted by Nalod:

We worried about his bird rights already?

If we can pay off Shandon 20 mil to NOT play here, we can find money for these guys to stay!

Do we have to call him "JACKIE"? That name does not strike fear in the hearts of men!

hmmm... in an article a while ago, one of hte Knicks players mentioned they called sweetney "Big Sour," thought that was kind of cool. (found it, http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/281762p-241417c.html) anyway, JB is an alright set of initials if "Jackie" doesn't do it for you, but let's see him on the court before we decide.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 03/03/2005 15:29:22]
tkf
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3/3/2005  3:35 PM
yes, I hope he pans out to be a good player, I want to hear the chants of JACKIE!! Not JACKASS!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
misterearl
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3/3/2005  4:07 PM
Do we have to call him "JACKIE"? That name does not strike fear in the hearts of men!

Jackie Robinson?

Jumpin' Jacke Jackson - Globetrotters

Jackie Smith? Saint Louis Cardinals

Nalod - Does the name Shaquille, or Bill (Russell) by itself, strike fear?

JB has a nice ring to it. Mister Dynamite indeed.
once a knick always a knick
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jackie butler was a FREE first round pick
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