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Herb with a few dumb moves last night
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JUNKyardKNICK13
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3/1/2005  5:46 PM
What was he thinking?! Rose and JYD should have been in on the defensive end during the end of regulation. We needed defense and rebounding...Who else thought this was a mistake?
I thought the sloagan was All Ball, not All Lottery.
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VDesai
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3/1/2005  5:55 PM
Perhaps it was a mistake, but at the same time the Lakers hit a few LONG 3's...several feet behind the line. Atkins and Kobe's 3's especially were from far out. And if the Knicks hit theirt FT's down the stretch (rather than Marbury, TT and KT going 1/2) its a different game as well. A lot of these collapses have centered on the Knicks opening the door with bad free throw shooting.
EWING33BXNY
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3/1/2005  5:58 PM
I agree with the Lakers hitting plenty of big shots. But in the same breath Herb only called 5 timeouts with 4 seconds to go. I think as a coach he should be more involved and use the TOs to get the players heads back into the game. I really think it has to do with bad coaching and substitutions.
VDesai
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3/1/2005  6:03 PM
The big folly was not fouling and allowing the Lakers to attempt a game tying 3. We've seemingly been burned by that a lot in recent memory.
knicks1248
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3/1/2005  6:43 PM
FTs is every teams worst nightmare.
ES
kNYks342
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3/1/2005  6:51 PM
i agree with jyknick...i look at this same situation every game..i mean if you are up especially 11 with a minute left in the game you have to go to your defensive specialists...especially the way the knicks let up leads. You cant keep on making the same mistake over and over and over again.eventually you have to realize that you need to switch something to make it work. what really gets to me is the way all of our coaches in the last 5 years operate. I mean if you are lacking energy on the court you have some people on the bench who can provide it (ariza jyd rose) if we are alcking offense same thing (mo taylor, penny) herb needs to realize he has options on the bench at if we are missing something he should fix it by inserint someone else.
djsunyc
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3/1/2005  7:24 PM
herb is learning on the fly. they are playing VERY hard for him and that's all you can ask for now. you can complain about in game calls down the stretch of games when wins/losses mean something. but for right now, he's establishing a rotation, trying to incorporate 2 new players, and is trying to get them to play defense. i have no problems at all with herb now, and would have no problems if he was the coach next season.
diderotn
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3/1/2005  7:45 PM
I agree 100% with your statement. Herb is a student of the game, and I can almost guaranty you that he will not make the same mistake twice...I too thought that it was a huge mistake not to have our defensive squad on the court the last three minutes of the game, espeicially since we were ahead....

Posted by djsunyc:

herb is learning on the fly. they are playing VERY hard for him and that's all you can ask for now. you can complain about in game calls down the stretch of games when wins/losses mean something. but for right now, he's establishing a rotation, trying to incorporate 2 new players, and is trying to get them to play defense. i have no problems at all with herb now, and would have no problems if he was the coach next season.
The true Knickabocker..........
knicks1248
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3/1/2005  8:15 PM
Playing hard is one thing for our So call defensive unit ( didn't know we had one), but not smart, and thats the thing between winning and losing.

Defense is all about effort and commen sense. Ariza may bring loads of energy, hustle play, some steals, but he's far from being a smart player. Not dogging the knicks, but in all reality, Kt, Marbury, and maybe penny, Are the smartest players you want on the floor, the rest make to many mental errors. Ariza Gambles way to much on the defense, especially going for steals, and is to eratic at times going to the hole. It's all part of maturing, but just not when the games in the balnce.

Herb is learning a rotation, but it's not as if they just brought him in, he's been here for ever, it's really no excuses, other then a solid playbook. But he knows who's capable of doing what, there strengths, and weakness, the efforts. His job is to bring it out of them, not play around with a rotation ( despite injuries) for 7 weeks, 3 months into a season.

JVG( hate always using him as an example) was hired in march, and didn't proceed to lose 18 of the next 20, and he didn't toy around with the rotation for 20 games.

Herb is a big "Question Mark". Right now he deserves to be fired, if we make the playoffs, He deserves an extension.
ES
diderotn
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3/1/2005  8:23 PM
Dude! forgive me for saying that, but you are insane for blaming Herb for the losses that he endured as an interim headcoach....He was dealt a bad hand, JVG had talents and most of all a group of players who were mature enough to take responsibility for their actions. Don't forget that JVG still had Ewing around. comparing the two was really idiotic. Herb didn't have a healthy group of players. TT, Penny, Houston, Marb, Crawf, believe it or not were all injured. We are just now beginning to get healthy....Also, it is hard to take a group of guys who were accoustume of playing for ofensive minded coach and try to tell them to go out and change their game and now play defense, especially if 4 out of the five starters are not known for defense....
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nykdunk
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3/1/2005  10:28 PM
I'm glad the coach is only making a few dumb moves as opposed to our previous coach, who would only make dumb moves.
djsunyc
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3/1/2005  10:51 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

Herb is learning a rotation, but it's not as if they just brought him in, he's been here for ever, it's really no excuses, other then a solid playbook. But he knows who's capable of doing what, there strengths, and weakness, the efforts. His job is to bring it out of them, not play around with a rotation ( despite injuries) for 7 weeks, 3 months into a season.

going from assistant to head coach and being successful is tough. there are a boat load of assistants that stay just that, assistants. only a few can make that transition b/c it's a completely different job description and alot more responsibility. and he may like a particular player more than somebody esle. case in point, sweets. lenny RARELY went to him but herb is giving him more touches. he may like penny's veteran presence more than ariza. and plus he has 2 new pieces to incorporate.
Allanfan20
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3/2/2005  12:22 AM
I think Herb has been fine. And against the Lakers, I thought the interior D was actually pretty good for once. That was watching it in person and on the TV rewind. It's the perimeter D that was really bad. Atkins and Butler hit a million 3 pointers.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
gunsnewing
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3/2/2005  7:46 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I think Herb has been fine. And against the Lakers, I thought the interior D was actually pretty good for once. That was watching it in person and on the TV rewind. It's the perimeter D that was really bad. Atkins and Butler hit a million 3 pointers.

that is why I hope Ariza because a shutdown defender at the 3 who can guard 2's like Sprewell did. And Hopefully we can pickup or draft a good SG so that Crawford can be the backup 1 & 2. A backcourt of Steph and Craw is too much of a defensive liability. So I guess if all the best centers were gone and a SG happened to be the best player available i would take the SG.
knicks1248
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3/2/2005  10:48 AM
I don't think herb is the answer, IMO, he's just to soft...

Also, it is hard to take a group of guys who were accoustume of playing for ofensive minded coach and try to tell them to go out and change their game and now play defense, especially if 4 out of the five starters are not known for defense....

Wasn't Lenny & chaney, harping on how bad we play defense, always talking about that comes first. You ever onder why ever coach in every sport preaches defense first yet there teams are you usually last in that department.

Simple because they can't ( or don't know how to) make this guy's buy into there philosophy, and thats the sign of a mediocre coach.
ES
nykdunk
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3/2/2005  1:08 PM
The players never listened to Lenny. They are listening to Herb. The effort on the defense has gone up considerably since Lenny left. The fact that it hasn't improved us much is more due to the collection of players than the coach.
diderotn
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3/2/2005  7:32 PM
This team is for real. They have the taste of blood in their mouths and they will be playing with a lot more confidence from this point on.
The true Knickabocker..........
Herb with a few dumb moves last night

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