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Possible trade scenarios in the offseason ..
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DaKidd
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3/20/2002  11:24 AM
I posted this on another board and I just wanted to get your input on it ..

1. We draft Ming with our pick if he is still available

2. We trade the rights to Ming + Othella Harrington to the Clippers for Lamar Odom + Michael Olowokandi

Clippers' advantage to the trade:

Clips will avoid dealing with Odom and Kandi's contract negotiations since they'll be free agents soon plus this trade will give the Clips a balanced line-up ..

C Yao Ming/Sean Rooks
PF Elton Brand/Othella Harrington
SF Darius Miles/Corey Maggette
SG Eric Piatkowski/Quentin Richardson
PG Jeff McInnis/Keyon Dooling


Obviously, Odom has overstayed his welcome in LA and would need a fresh start to realize his potential. What better place to do it than in his hometown right? Kandi, on the other hand, has showed flashes of brilliance during the past couple of games and also has something to prove with his #1 pick status. Therefore, these two are expendable.

Knicks' advantage to the trade:

We draft Ming but we won't have to deal with our balls being held by the Chinese governement with all their demands if Ming is drafted by a team. Plus, Clippers are a more exciting team than the present Knicks are and that should give Chinese fans a good show once the exhibition is played there. Here's the line-up of the Knicks after the trade ..

C Michael Olowokandi/Marcus Camby
PF Kurt Thomas/Marcus Camby
SF Latrell Sprewell/Lamar Odom/Shandon Anderson
SG Allan Houston/Latrell Sprewell/Shandon Anderson
PG Lamar Odom/Mark Jackson/Howard Eisley/Charlie Ward


With their trade value being low, Ododm and Kandi would be stupid enough to ask for max dollars. And if they do, heck, we've taken outrageous contracts to Anderson and Eisley then why not give them to someone who really deserves it?

Odom can be a 15-7-5 guy if he handles the Point Forward position on a consistent basis while Kandi needs to be a solid intimidator at his position. This trade gives us balance and flexibility and we wouldn't have to wait if Ming becomes a stud or a dud. Odom and Kandi are much more proven talent than Ming is right now.
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martin
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3/20/2002  11:54 AM
I am not sure I would do this if I were LA. Candi-man has shown a lot this year and their owner - Don Sterling? - has said his young center is untouchable. From what I have seen, and it consists of ESPN highlights, Michael has developed some really nice low post moves. Dropping him and Lamar for Ming is nowhere near a fair trade - remember Othella is just an undersized PF who also has an out at the end of this year.

Now, if the trade were Spree/Ming for Candi/Lamar, now we are talking. That would be an interesting trade. LA gets a center that compliments Brand's low post needs and forces opposing centers to guard him on the perimeter, and Spree brings you some veteran leadership (if you can count that) and defense. NY gets a more balanced lineup. I would do this trade from either side.
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Andrew
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3/20/2002  12:12 PM
I think alot depends on how far away the Clippers believe they are from contending in the playoffs. Giving up Candi for Ming sets them a ways back. I believe the reports are that Ming is a couple year project...if not a 4 year project. I don't think that the Clippers would want to wait that long...and take the chance that Ming would not pan out. Otherwise I like the trade for the Knicks...even if Sprewell is included.
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DaKidd
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3/20/2002  12:42 PM
How about these series of moves?

1. Draft Ming and, together with Othella Harrington, trade for Odom and Kandi

2. Trade Spree and Van Gundy's rights for Penny plus their first-rounder

3. Draft Marcus Haislip or Chris Marcus with Phoenix's pick

Final Knicks Line-up for 2002-2003 season

C Michael Olowokandi
PF Kurt Thomas
SF Lamar Odom
SG Allan Houston
PG Penny Hardaway

6th man Marcus Camby

Bench
Either Chris Marcus (C) or Marcus Haislip (PF)
SG/SF Shandon Anderson
PG Mark Jackson
PG Charlie Ward
SG Lavor Postell
PG Howard Eisley
C/PF Travis Knight


Now that's a more complete balanced line-up.

Penny would be an interesting piece here as he looks to get back on track and get his career to where it used to be. Let's face it, him being an SG has become a failed experiment and what better way to bring him back to where he si than giving him his point duties again right? If he becomes a dud, heck, we still have three PG's ..

The kicker here is PHX's pick because we have the opportunity of picking up another big man to add to our roster ..

PHX needs Spree's veteran leadership to mix with the young nucleus that they have (Marion, Johnson and Marbury) plus they need JVG's coaching too to improve their team. Can you imagine a fastbreak with Marbury in the middle and Marion and Spree manning the wings? Nasty.

*Plus JVG gets to coach his favorite player again: Spree ..
Andrew
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3/20/2002  1:56 PM
I wouldn't do the second scenerio based soley on the fact that Penny most likely will never be healthy again.
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DaKidd
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3/20/2002  2:15 PM
Posted by Andrew:

I wouldn't do the second scenerio based soley on the fact that Penny most likely will never be healthy again.

But wouldn't be the pick be interesting?

We get younger and we make JVG and Spree happy ..
Andrew
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3/20/2002  2:18 PM
Yeah, that would be interesting...but how about Steph for Spree and Van Gundy?
Posted by DaKidd:


But wouldn't be the pick be interesting?

We get younger and we make JVG and Spree happy ..
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DaKidd
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3/20/2002  3:49 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Yeah, that would be interesting...but how about Steph for Spree and Van Gundy?

That would be nice but I don't think PHX would let go of Marbury though .. They're committed to him long term and inserting Joe Johnson in the starting line-up only means that Penny is expendable ..

Let's face it, we have to be screwed out of a deal in order for us to get a good one. IMO, we get screwed out of the JVG and Spree for Penny and draft pick deal but it would pay dividends for us in the long run ..

Again, this would be a great line-up ..

Final Knicks Line-up for 2002-2003 season

C Michael Olowokandi/Marcus Camby
PF Kurt Thomas/Marcus Haislip
SF Lamar Odom/Shandon Anderson
SG Allan Houston/Lavor Postell
PG Penny Hardaway/Mark Jackson


This line-up would be competitive enough in the upcoming years while we wait for our long term contracts (i.e. Anderson, Eisely, Houston) to run out ..
Starks3
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3/20/2002  4:10 PM
All this talk is pointless cuase first of all the Knicks are not that bad to get the 2 top picks, and second the clips would never trade odam and kandi for some unporoven center they have to redevelop(look how long it took for kandi to develop)and othello just doesnt fit with them and neither does spree cause how are they going to get him any type of playing time with miles in there. So i duobt any of this and then the talk of all of a sudden van gundy going to the suns has no evidence.
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DaKidd
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3/20/2002  7:11 PM
Posted by Starks3:

All this talk is pointless cuase first of all the Knicks are not that bad to get the 2 top picks, and second the clips would never trade odam and kandi for some unporoven center they have to redevelop(look how long it took for kandi to develop)and othello just doesnt fit with them and neither does spree cause how are they going to get him any type of playing time with miles in there. So i duobt any of this and then the talk of all of a sudden van gundy going to the suns has no evidence.

First of all, what's your insurance that Ming would be picked in the top 2? I mean, a lot players in recent draft history have seen their stock fall from a 1st rounder to a late 1st rounder (i.e. Tinsley) What makes you so sure that GM's wouldn't be doubting Ming's capability to withstand an 82 game season?

You have a point on the Clips not wanting to add another swing man which is why I would like to trade Ming and one of our "cheap" forwards to the Clips as a back-up to Elton Brand.

We are stockpiled with PF's and the Clips are stockpiled with SF's, you do the math.

Ming + Othella Harrington for Odom and Olowokandi

Wouldn't this be a great line-up if that trade went down?

C Michael Olowokandi
PF Kurt Thomas
SF Latrell Sprewell
SG Allan Houston
PG Lamar Odom

6th man Marcus Camby

BigSm00th
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3/20/2002  7:22 PM
Aren't we trying to rebuild? Olowokandi has only flourished when Elton Brand went there and he wasn't in the spotlight anymore. Add that with a big city like NY and I think he's bound to fail. I doubt Sterling does this, simply because his team has gotten better this past year to the point where next year they should be a top 5 team in the west, taking the Jazz's spot who will surely drop when Stockton (presumably) retires. Penny Hardaway? Penny's stock dropped after he starred in Blue Chips, come on, he hasn't had a good year for as long as I can remember. If Starbury comes here for Spree and JVG's rights (does that even exist, his rights, it sounds like he is our slave), then I guess do it. I say keep the pick and draft someone we can build around, a project, a la Chris Wilcox, Amare Stoudemire, someone along those lines. Those are good ideas though, if opportunities like those presented themselves, the Knicks should think long and hard about doing it.
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BigSm00th
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3/20/2002  7:26 PM
And I also think Ming will go to Chicago with either the first or second pick and then getting traded to Dallas for Michael Finley, this trade was at RealGM and makes sense since Dallas is a team that could meet China's demands and he would be with fellow countryman in Wang ZhiZhi. Imagine in a few years with Dallas having the potential of starting Steve Nash at point and then have 4 centers, Nowitzki, LaFrentz, ZhiZhi, and Ming, all who can shoot the 3, in the game. Finley would return to Chi-Town and they would start Crawford/Best, Finley, Rose, Chandler, Curry. Good trade for both teams. I think Memphis will get numero uno (they've never had a number 1 pick, amazing isn't it?) and they could go with the Duke backcourt of Williams and Battier, Gasol at 3, Swift at 4, pick up a center in the 2nd round. Just some thoughts I thought I should throw in there.
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Starks3
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3/20/2002  9:01 PM
First of all, what's your insurance that Ming would be picked in the top 2? I mean, a lot players in recent draft history have seen their stock fall from a 1st rounder to a late 1st rounder (i.e. Tinsley) What makes you so sure that GM's wouldn't be doubting Ming's capability to withstand an 82 game season?

You have a point on the Clips not wanting to add another swing man which is why I would like to trade Ming and one of our "cheap" forwards to the Clips as a back-up to Elton Brand.

We are stockpiled with PF's and the Clips are stockpiled with SF's, you do the math.

Ming + Othella Harrington for Odom and Olowokandi

Wouldn't this be a great line-up if that trade went down?

C Michael Olowokandi
PF Kurt Thomas
SF Latrell Sprewell
SG Allan Houston
PG Lamar Odom

6th man Marcus Camby

Dude first of all since when would u put Odam at the point, that would not work out at all, he is more a 3 then anyhting, second like i said before the clips would never do that cuase they dont need ming to they can develop another center, it took to long to develop Kandi. And why in the hell would they want some undersized powerfowrd like othello. Its not going to happen and I think Ming sucks anyway, but it seems that since he is 7'6 there is no doubt that he will be picked with the top 2 picks, read all the stuff about him and u will know...this guy will either go 1 or 2.
How would that help us rebuld anyway cause once again we would have 2 bloated contracts and only giving up a draft pick and a resoable contract. It would never work under that either.
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Possible trade scenarios in the offseason ..

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