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can we dump penny, please?
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djsunyc
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3/1/2005  9:57 AM
it's not about the "shoving match" (anybody else think the best thing that could've happened is that they both fell, tore their ACL's, and get suspended by the league indefinitely for fighting like women?)

but everytime i see him on the court means i get less minutes of trevor. he is SO old man. he has that jumper of his and that's it. his defense is absolutely non-existent, individual or team. he can't run the point anymore, i mean it's not 1995 anymore.

uggghh. sorry, but i actually think he's worse for the team than tim (if that's possible).

he works hard but his "leadership" and his "finals presence" hasn't really been felt, especially since he took a powder a couple of months ago.
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fishmike
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3/1/2005  10:08 AM
its hard to say that... I think he's been good. I loved the shoving match because it was over defense. These guys are finally showing some fight, and that they are sick of losing.

Penny is a good stop gap for us. He's fire sale trade fodder next Feb so keeping him around makes good sense. He's been a good trooper and his jumper has been pretty reliable. If he cant knock down the open shot when JAmal and Marb penetrate he's doodoo.

Also he's been playing VERY hard. Diving on the floor and really hustling. He's a shadow of his former self but we only have another year of him
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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3/1/2005  10:11 AM
it's tough for me to accept b/c we have trevor.

i know what you're saying fish but at this point, what's more important for this knicks team? having penny showing fight and hustle out there or having the same coming from trevor? trying to win with penny and trying to win with ariza are two different things. those two guy's minutes should be swapped.

penny is the one that should have the 5 mins and impact the game that doesn't show up in the boxscore, not trev. i mean, trev had a couple of good defensive sequences on kobe last night. he needs that.
Marv
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3/1/2005  10:11 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

it's not about the "shoving match" (anybody else think the best thing that could've happened is that they both fell, tore their ACL's, and get suspended by the league indefinitely for fighting like women?)

HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrew
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3/1/2005  10:17 AM
Penny has played well as of late, and his D has been decent. He did guard Kobe effectively after Crawford basically was abused. Fish has it right, he is a stop gap...until Ariza gets more reliable.
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Bonn1997
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3/1/2005  10:30 AM
We don't need any more dump Penny or TT threads because they will be dumped before next year's trade deadline. The guys with expiring contracts the following year will be dumped that year.
djsunyc
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3/1/2005  10:39 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Penny has played well as of late, and his D has been decent. He did guard Kobe effectively after Crawford basically was abused. Fish has it right, he is a stop gap...until Ariza gets more reliable.

fair enough but i still think ariza should get first crack. if he looks lost THEN bring in penny. it's just a minor tweak.
Pharzeone
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3/1/2005  10:48 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Andrew:

Penny has played well as of late, and his D has been decent. He did guard Kobe effectively after Crawford basically was abused. Fish has it right, he is a stop gap...until Ariza gets more reliable.

fair enough but i still think ariza should get first crack. if he looks lost THEN bring in penny. it's just a minor tweak.

Do you guys think that Penny complained to Herb about his minutes, because Ariza was getting crazy minutes a couple of weeks ago but they were in the middle of that losing streak. Maybe Herb wants to go slow with Ariza, I am just glad he has let Sweets play long minutes. And it is starting to pay off. I would like to see, Ariza take more jumpshots. I read that while in HS he was the go to guy and took 3s, so he does have some range, just not consistent like Pipen and Marion when they came into the league.
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djsunyc
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3/1/2005  10:52 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Andrew:

Penny has played well as of late, and his D has been decent. He did guard Kobe effectively after Crawford basically was abused. Fish has it right, he is a stop gap...until Ariza gets more reliable.

fair enough but i still think ariza should get first crack. if he looks lost THEN bring in penny. it's just a minor tweak.

Do you guys think that Penny complained to Herb about his minutes, because Ariza was getting crazy minutes a couple of weeks ago but they were in the middle of that losing streak. Maybe Herb wants to go slow with Ariza, I am just glad he has let Sweets play long minutes. And it is starting to pay off. I would like to see, Ariza take more jumpshots. I read that while in HS he was the go to guy and took 3s, so he does have some range, just not consistent like Pipen and Marion when they came into the league.

penny started crying and then isiah told him to GO HOME to memphis for a few days. this was when ariza was getting minutes and putting up some nice numbers. of course we were losing left and right also. but i think isiah wanted penny to get minutes going into the deadline to see if he could move him. now, i have no idea unless it's to pump up his value for this offseason but i think anybody that acquires him is doing it for his deal and not his play.
gunsnewing
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3/1/2005  10:52 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Andrew:

Penny has played well as of late, and his D has been decent. He did guard Kobe effectively after Crawford basically was abused. Fish has it right, he is a stop gap...until Ariza gets more reliable.

fair enough but i still think ariza should get first crack. if he looks lost THEN bring in penny. it's just a minor tweak.

I agree and Ariza will still look lost a lot of times but on a night like lastnight when Ariza played great he only logged 13mins while Penny got 32!
martin
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3/1/2005  10:57 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Andrew:

Penny has played well as of late, and his D has been decent. He did guard Kobe effectively after Crawford basically was abused. Fish has it right, he is a stop gap...until Ariza gets more reliable.

fair enough but i still think ariza should get first crack. if he looks lost THEN bring in penny. it's just a minor tweak.

I agree and Ariza will still look lost a lot of times but on a night like lastnight when Ariza played great he only logged 13mins while Penny got 32!

there are 2 things that Penny adds that Ariza does not:

- when you are playing a post-up offense, you need outside shooters to spread the floor for Sweets and Mo T. Penny does that better than Ariza.

- Right now the Knicks have no real full-time backup PG. Penny, Marb and Craw share the guard duties.

I'd like to see Ariza get 20 consistant minutes, but it is what it is.
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s3231
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3/1/2005  12:04 PM
While Penny obviously isn't even close to the player he once was, he is still a nice player off the bench that can either help you a lot or hurt you at times with his jumpshot. However, he has been playing well lately and for the sake of his trade value we should continue to play him if he continues to deliver. Trevor is still getting enough minutes to contribute, when the time comes he will get more.

[Edited by - s3231 on 03/01/2005 12:05:06]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
gunsnewing
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3/1/2005  12:15 PM
Posted by s3231:

While Penny obviously isn't even close to the player he once was, he is still a nice player off the bench that can either help you a lot or hurt you at times with his jumpshot. However, he has been playing well lately and for the sake of his trade value we should continue to play him if he continues to deliver. Trevor is still getting enough minutes to contribute, when the time comes he will get more.

[Edited by - s3231 on 03/01/2005 12:05:06]

hey I'm fine with that but I think on a night like last night when Ariza could've had a career game but got pulled early for no reason and only saw 13mins, you have to play Ariza when he's on. If he looks lost then bring in Penny. Don't make the same mistake you made playing Nazr over Sweetney eventhough we were losing every game.
fishmike
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3/1/2005  12:33 PM
I'm OK w/ Ariza's role right now. He's 19 and has a nice impact off the bench. Some days he will be great, others he will be lost. He's a part of this team for a long time and growing him and getting him the right habits is ok in my book. I see the staff constantly talking to him... this is all good
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s3231
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3/1/2005  12:34 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by s3231:

While Penny obviously isn't even close to the player he once was, he is still a nice player off the bench that can either help you a lot or hurt you at times with his jumpshot. However, he has been playing well lately and for the sake of his trade value we should continue to play him if he continues to deliver. Trevor is still getting enough minutes to contribute, when the time comes he will get more.

[Edited by - s3231 on 03/01/2005 12:05:06]

hey I'm fine with that but I think on a night like last night when Ariza could've had a career game but got pulled early for no reason and only saw 13mins, you have to play Ariza when he's on. If he looks lost then bring in Penny. Don't make the same mistake you made playing Nazr over Sweetney eventhough we were losing every game.










I agree that if Trevor plays well he should stay in the game. However, Tim was having a great night and Penny was also hitting his shots so both deserved to be in the game. Plus, Penny was played more in those crucial minutes because he is a veteran and is not supposed to make mistakes that Ariza could make since he is a rookie. If Penny played like crap I would understand why people would think that Ariza should have gotten more minutes, but he was playing pretty well so I don't see why people are debating about it. Its not like Ariza is 25 years old or anything, he is 19, he is getting an ample amount of minutes to contribute.

[Edited by - s3231 on 03/01/2005 12:36:17]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Nalod
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3/1/2005  1:46 PM
Reezy should get 20 minutes at least. Anfernee can rot on the bench, or send him down to memphis again to rehab with Elvis.

We get younger and more athletic when Anfernee sits on the toliet!

Sorry, I have never liked him since his Magic days, let alone in PHX and now here! We need to break his ass and at least let Dolan get some insurance money on this human dung!

To his credit, he knows what to do, just not always gonna execute it!

I like Isiah not tanking and building up thse kids to think win-win-win, but less Anfernee and more Rezzy can't be bad!
Allanfan20
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3/1/2005  1:53 PM
I am actually fine with Penny. He's a good influence and he plays hard on both ends. Very competitive. Sometimes his shot wont fall, but he still plays hard. He's a good influence on everyone on the team. I wont mind sticking with him at all for the rest of this and next season.
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Ira
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3/1/2005  2:27 PM
For a 19 year old second round pick, Ariza's getting a lot of minutes. When we're statstically out of the playoffs, I could see giving him more time. Meanwhile, Herb Williams should play whoever he thinks gives the team the best chance to win.
gunsnewing
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3/1/2005  2:30 PM
Posted by Ira:

For a 19 year old second round pick, Ariza's getting a lot of minutes. When we're statstically out of the playoffs, I could see giving him more time. Meanwhile, Herb Williams should play whoever he thinks gives the team the best chance to win.

they'll be 3 games left in the season before we are mathimatically out of it imo lol. Ariza should get around 20min and so should Penny. Not 13 for Ariza and 32 for Penny.
Masterplan
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3/1/2005  3:15 PM
ariza's 19, a rookie with his whole career ahead of him. as long as he's playing every game, i don't particularly care if its 12 minutes or 25. it's kind of nit-picky to give an exact number he should be playing. ariza is on a light-speed development course compared to rookies and second round picks we've had for years, he's making the most of his minutes so i'm not going to complain.
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can we dump penny, please?
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