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20 pf's, 2pg guards, talk about laydens unbalance roster, what's this????
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knicks1248
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2/25/2005  9:47 AM
What happens if Jc, and/or SM get injured or run into foul trouble.

Im just curious with IT and his lateral friggen trades. This guy is getting beyond bafflement, it's getting worse and worse. I'm going to have to take a coures in something to try and understand this guy's real plan. He's been head over heals for malik rose, for what, I don't know. He's defense is solid, and his a little tougher then the sapps we have now, but we have shaq, in the east. And if we do by some grace of god ( and effort) make the playoffs, it will probably be as a eigth seed, facing (no other then ) "the big deisy" shaq.

Maybe chemistry might be the word I'm looking for, and hoping for, because balance is no where on this team ( just when things were gettin a little more level).


We essentially have ONE POINT GUARD????????????
Maybe it's me, but I clueless??
ES
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Vmart
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2/25/2005  10:10 AM
This just in Isiah's plan is worse than Layden's plan. Lets take a step by step analysis of Layden's plan. Dice, Spree, H20, frank Williams, Dekembe. Plan goes up the hill when Dice gets injured. Would have been a nice team. Young players in the wing, Sweetney, Frank Williams, Vujanic (if he ever came here), Lampe, Slavko, and maybe another pick had IT not traded it in Marbury deal. Just a thought, how much more exciting is this team from Layen's team. Not much more. Isiah has pulled a fast one on the NYK fan rebuilding sounds nice and all doesn't it but after his first initial plan back fired in his face. Now was't Layden rebuilding also think about it he had more young players in the wing then IT has on this current team. Ariza is nice, but whats after Ariza, nothing.

IT is creating more cap hell than is imaginable. How many PFs do we need, we have more now than when Layden was here. Isiah, Isiah, Isiah...we have been conned. I am convinced that IT has no plan in place its trade on the whim with this guy. How many lateral moves has he made just to many.

[Edited by - Vmart on 02/25/2005 10:12:17]
Nalod
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2/25/2005  11:29 AM
I remember Layden trying to get Mo Taylor many moons ago.

Your comments require a gallan of kool aid and 3 months in "Knick" camp to be reprogrammed.

I am ok with the spurs deal. Since the little guy was in Europe he might have really liked some players whom needs seasoning and may want to draft a euro and stash him. Rose is a productive player, but we got JYD in that role now.

I think getting a mo taylor for his expiring deal is not logical. I really just don't understand this one!
nyk4ever
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2/25/2005  12:58 PM
look at the big Picture guys, THIS SEASON IS OVER. To build a team you need trade assets and draft picks, 2 things the Knicks have now.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nykdunk
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2/25/2005  1:24 PM
We essentially have ONE POINT GUARD????????????
Maybe it's me, but I clueless??

I share your confusion about Isiah's "plan," (assuming he has one) but to be fair to him, we really only did have one point guard before the two trades. Brewer is NBDL garbage who can't play regular minutes. Moochie was a small guy with a big contract, who couldn't shoot, defend, or run an offense. He was one of the more useless Knicks I've ever seen. I don't agree with the Houston deal, but essentially we haven't lost any PGs by trading those two pieces of garbage.
nykdunk
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2/25/2005  1:41 PM
Isiah has convinced himself that traditional rebuilding will not be tolerated in NY. Without traditional rebuilding though, we aren't winning a championship, or coming close. So either Isiah:

a) doesn't understand that rebuilding is necessary to win a championship.
b) understands, but is not gutsy enough to try and implement an unpopular rebuilding process for fear of fan backlash.
c) understands and doesn't fear fan backlash, but is under orders from Dolan and chooses not to speak out against a man that is paying him so handsomely. He would therefore be lying when he says his goal is to win a championship.

[Edited by - nykdunk on 02/25/2005 13:42:20]
Pharzeone
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2/25/2005  2:43 PM
Posted by nykdunk:

Isiah has convinced himself that traditional rebuilding will not be tolerated in NY. Without traditional rebuilding though, we aren't winning a championship, or coming close. So either Isiah:

a) doesn't understand that rebuilding is necessary to win a championship.
b) understands, but is not gutsy enough to try and implement an unpopular rebuilding process for fear of fan backlash.
c) understands and doesn't fear fan backlash, but is under orders from Dolan and chooses not to speak out against a man that is paying him so handsomely. He would therefore be lying when he says his goal is to win a championship.

[Edited by - nykdunk on 02/25/2005 13:42:20]

I think what Isiah and his staff are doing is this. They are evaluating their own talent whether it be in college, overseas, NBDL, or on current rosters. He wants the ability to draft a talent (with picks), or trade for young talent that is sitting on a bench (expiring contracts).
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
matt
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2/25/2005  3:55 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

look at the big Picture guys, THIS SEASON IS OVER. To build a team you need trade assets and draft picks, 2 things the Knicks have now.

I think that was Isiah's thinking. If I'm guessing, he saw the Sixers get Webber, and Boston get Walker and realized that there is no shot of the Knicks making playoffs. So, he did the next best thing and grabbed some extra #1 picks. Not a bad second choice
nykdunk
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2/25/2005  4:04 PM
I think what Isiah and his staff are doing is this. They are evaluating their own talent whether it be in college, overseas, NBDL, or on current rosters. He wants the ability to draft a talent (with picks), or trade for young talent that is sitting on a bench (expiring contracts).

How were you able to deduce this from the trades he made? Is Mo Taylor suddenly a young talent with tons of potential? I liked the Rose deal. It gave us picks with which to work with. But the Taylor deal? How does that make any sense? His contract is bad, and Isiah gave up a pick to coat things off. I'm thrilled we got rid of the worst player in the NBA in Moochie Norris, but I'm not happy that we took back a role player with an awful contract to do it. Isiah's plan looks very much like the Layden plan. Blazing a one-way path to eternal mediocrity.
MX25
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2/25/2005  4:36 PM
I love how you guys talk about these "DRAFT PICKS" Isiah got like they are lottery picks. Big deal he got the 29th pick in draft and the 30th pick in 06. How do these picks have value? Knicks suddenly gonna jump from #6 pick to top 3 cause they offered the #29 pick?

Last draft Boston had 3 picks 15,24,25..they wanted to get into the top 10 to get robert swift but they couldn't. Utah had #14 and #16 and they couldn't get into top 10. Atlanta had the #6 and the #17 pick and they couldn't get into the top 3. Those offers right there are better than knicks offering there pick and last pick in 1st round. The excitement over two picks that will be 29 and 30 are way over the top. Espically since Isiah took on 2 terrible contracts
gunsnewing
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2/25/2005  4:38 PM
Posted by MX25:

I love how you guys talk about these "DRAFT PICKS" Isiah got like they are lottery picks. Big deal he got the 29th pick in draft and the 30th pick in 06. How do these picks have value? Knicks suddenly gonna jump from #6 pick to top 3 cause they offered the #29 pick?

Last draft Boston had 3 picks 15,24,25..they wanted to get into the top 10 to get robert swift but they couldn't. Utah had #14 and #16 and they couldn't get into top 10. Atlanta had the #6 and the #17 pick and they couldn't get into the top 3. Those offers right there are better than knicks offering there pick and last pick in 1st round. The excitement over two picks that will be 29 and 30 are way over the top. Espically since Isiah took on 2 terrible contracts

are u even a Knicks fan??? you do realiza that we have Isiah drafting not Danny Ainge.And you do realize a guy named trevor ariza who plays for the Knicks was a steal with the 43rd pick not the 29th pick! the 43rd!!
MX25
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2/25/2005  5:15 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by MX25:

I love how you guys talk about these "DRAFT PICKS" Isiah got like they are lottery picks. Big deal he got the 29th pick in draft and the 30th pick in 06. How do these picks have value? Knicks suddenly gonna jump from #6 pick to top 3 cause they offered the #29 pick?

Last draft Boston had 3 picks 15,24,25..they wanted to get into the top 10 to get robert swift but they couldn't. Utah had #14 and #16 and they couldn't get into top 10. Atlanta had the #6 and the #17 pick and they couldn't get into the top 3. Those offers right there are better than knicks offering there pick and last pick in 1st round. The excitement over two picks that will be 29 and 30 are way over the top. Espically since Isiah took on 2 terrible contracts

are u even a Knicks fan??? you do realiza that we have Isiah drafting not Danny Ainge.And you do realize a guy named trevor ariza who plays for the Knicks was a steal with the 43rd pick not the 29th pick! the 43rd!!

I don't like what Isiah has done since he's been here. And yea he drafted Ariza but that doesn't mean he'll automatically draft another steal at end of 1st round. Look at Cavs GM Paxson. He drafted Boozer in 2nd round but then he had busts like wagner and diop. And i don't wanna hear the "Isiah drafted Damon and Camby." I don't think they are great players. Only really good player he drafted was T-Mac.

My point is people are making a big deal outta last pick in 1st round like it has huge value and will be a key to getting Bogut or top 3 pick. Which i don't see.

And you bring up Ainge. Look at Ainge. He's got them in 1st with a ton of young talented players.
codeunknown
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2/25/2005  5:22 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:



are u even a Knicks fan??? you do realiza that we have Isiah drafting not Danny Ainge.And you do realize a guy named trevor ariza who plays for the Knicks was a steal with the 43rd pick not the 29th pick! the 43rd!!

Isiah can maybe spot talent but he definitely can't manufacture talent. Ariza is fine but if you expect him to repeat that, you're asking a lot. No matter how you slice it, the 29th pick is not an impact defender at the 4-5 -- star centers are gone by the top 3. Getting picks is a good strategy, but Isaiah squandered one to get Mo Taylor. We have more than our share of expiring contracts, his deals adds zero flexibility and burns cash.

The Rose deal is mediocre. Instead of two picks at close to 30, I would have preferred a pick in the 14-18 range in either this or next year's draft. And, while you're at it, trade Kurt for a pick in the similar 14-18 range. Cleveland, Minnesota or Washington were good targets. Trading Kurt and Nazr solidifies our own pick at around #5. With a second pick at #15, we have a legitimate shot to move up. If the plan is to tank, atleast do it with style.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
gunsnewing
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2/25/2005  6:03 PM
kurt can get you a pick in the 14-18 range but Nazr cannot
Masterplan
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2/25/2005  6:06 PM
this is how i read IT's thought process on the two moves.

he's been doing scouting in europe and the college game. he must have liked what he saw there, and really wanted to get a few more spots to have the flexibility to upgrade our lottery pick or raid the mid-later portions of the draft for contributors. that's cool.

he must also have liked mo taylor. that's not cool. we have too many PFs, the ones who were starter material were already here. mo taylor can score down low, which is what IT wanted. that's sweetney's niche, and i don't want him losing out in PT to a guy who is just good enough to demand minutes but not good enough to elevate the team.

as for the PG shortage, i would love to see us bring in a D league player hungry for playing time, someone who's gonna leave it all out on the floor especially on D. do it soon, isaiah.

my two cents.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 02/25/2005 18:07:19]
misterearl
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2/25/2005  9:42 PM
you guys absollutely slay me reading Isiah's brainwaves.

Why not allow him the same four years that Layden worked in relative peace before stoning him ?

Why all the venom and hostility towards Zeke after little more than ONE year?

He's a point guard in the open court on the break and NONE of hios moves have been predicted by the amateur-wannabe General Managers who treat the NBA like a rotissiere league.

Isiah will improvise and make it happen.

It won't sound like anything you've expecetd or heard before.

His calls will NEVER match yours.

It's called jazz
once a knick always a knick
Masterplan
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2/25/2005  11:08 PM
Posted by misterearl:

you guys absollutely slay me reading Isiah's brainwaves.

Why not allow him the same four years that Layden worked in relative peace before stoning him ?

Why all the venom and hostility towards Zeke after little more than ONE year?

He's a point guard in the open court on the break and NONE of hios moves have been predicted by the amateur-wannabe General Managers who treat the NBA like a rotissiere league.

Isiah will improvise and make it happen.

It won't sound like anything you've expecetd or heard before.

His calls will NEVER match yours.

It's called jazz

my bad. let's shut down the message board until IT says he's done.
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20 pf's, 2pg guards, talk about laydens unbalance roster, what's this????
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