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there's only one real downside to these trades....
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fishmike
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2/24/2005  9:45 PM
and thats getting back Rose and Taylor. If we just dumped Nazr/Moochie/Baker for a couple late #1s that would be great.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  9:53 PM
Posted by fishmike:

and thats getting back Rose and Taylor. If we just dumped Nazr/Moochie/Baker for a couple late #1s that would be great.
I don't care about payroll. So, I guess that eliminates the one and only downside for me!
franco12
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2/24/2005  10:11 PM
I wouldn't have minded having one of these guys for the bench- both would be improvements over Baker as a 4 off the bench- but both?
Masterplan
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2/24/2005  10:28 PM
i consider it an opportunity cost. i'd rather have an undrafted rookie or young guy making the minimum getting the roster spot and minutes that rose and taylor will have for the next 3-4 years.

the knicks have to learn that paying players a lot doesn't increase production, in fact it can be counterproductive. i'd rather have let the guys we traded (except nazr) expire and replace them with hungry guys with something to prove.
djsunyc
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2/24/2005  11:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:

and thats getting back Rose and Taylor. If we just dumped Nazr/Moochie/Baker for a couple late #1s that would be great.

actually, we are now officially out of the sign and trade for the likes of kwame and swift. a young player in the $8 mil range. now, if we want that, we'll have to take back a NASTY NASTY NASTY deal to match up with tim and penny and then we lose the firesale chance. domino effect with that mo taylor trade and i don't like it.

we were all hoping nazr and cash or pick would turn into swift, kwame or something like that. now we gotta hope isiah can smooth talk someone for the MLE.

i love getting the 2 #1's. but i also thought we could've bought one this year as well. heck, with where this #1 is, we could've bought a high #2 and saved us from the guaranteed 3 year deal (not too significant but you know what i'm talking about).

i think of those 4 #1 picks the next two seasons, 1 or more will be traded.

on this trade day, isiah gets a C- from me.
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  11:08 PM
Who cares about bad contracts? The Knicks are not trying to get under the cap
Rich
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2/24/2005  11:21 PM
They should be.
gunsnewing
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2/24/2005  11:21 PM
Posted by Masterplan:

i consider it an opportunity cost. i'd rather have an undrafted rookie or young guy making the minimum getting the roster spot and minutes that rose and taylor will have for the next 3-4 years.

the knicks have to learn that paying players a lot doesn't increase production, in fact it can be counterproductive. i'd rather have let the guys we traded (except nazr) expire and replace them with hungry guys with something to prove.

what makes you think Taylor and Rose will be here for 3 whole years? they will be traded with TT/Penny/Houton/KT before then.

and whats the difference between have 2 late first round picks versus one. At best you're going to find one ariza and one stiff anyway. of course I would've liked another one so we can package 3picks instead of 2 for a top 3 but we might till be able to package 2 for 1.

I think some people are really overreacting over very trivial details. We still have the huge contracts of TT/Penny & H20/Taylor to get us very good players.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 02/24/2005 23:26:31]
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  11:24 PM
Posted by Rich:

They should be.
Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero
Rich
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2/24/2005  11:27 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

They should be.
Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero

Which teams won championships by constantly changing their business plan? Last year Isiah said he wouldn't build through the draft.

How did the Lakers sign Shaq? As a free agent. How? With cap room.

Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  11:31 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

They should be.
Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero

Which teams won championships by constantly changing their business plan? Last year Isiah said he wouldn't build through the draft.

How did the Lakers sign Shaq? As a free agent. How? With cap room.
I was joking when I said zero. Sure, a very small minority of the championship teams did.

I don't think Isiah is rebuilding through the draft. My suspicion is that these draft picks are just trade assets. Either way, we don't know Isiah's plan. He's told the media he'll lie to us if it suits his purposes.
gunsnewing
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2/24/2005  11:33 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

They should be.
Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero

its not about getting under the cap its building through the draft by selecting guys like Jordan, pippen, duncan, isiah, magic. But you can also win by making trades like detroit and Miami
Rich
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2/24/2005  11:33 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

They should be.
Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero

Which teams won championships by constantly changing their business plan? Last year Isiah said he wouldn't build through the draft.

How did the Lakers sign Shaq? As a free agent. How? With cap room.
I was joking when I said zero. Sure, a very small minority of the championship teams did.

I don't think Isiah is rebuilding through the draft. My suspicion is that these draft picks are just trade assets. Either way, we don't know Isiah's plan. He's told the media he'll lie to us if it suits his purposes.

I just don't see how the Knicks get a franchise big man who is 100% healthy and under 27. Without one, it's Layden redux.
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  11:34 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

They should be.
Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero

its not about getting under the cap its building through the draft by selecting guys like Jordan, pippen, duncan, isiah, magic. But you can also win by making trades like detroit and Miami
Exactly; and the Knicks have huge trade assets over the next two years.
Rich
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2/24/2005  11:35 PM
On the one hand, Isiah claims he is upgrading the talent through the trades. If so, it decreases the chances of betting a Duncan or Pippen. He is operating at cross purposes.
gunsnewing
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2/24/2005  11:37 PM
I'd rather build through the draft but obviously thats not an option for us Knicks fans. We're not letting contracts expire we're going to use them. Which means well the only time we have a a lottery pick will be this year and maybe next year.
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  11:37 PM
Posted by Rich:

On the one hand, Isiah claims he is upgrading the talent through the trades. If so, it decreases the chances of betting a Duncan or Pippen.
huh?
Rich
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2/24/2005  11:41 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

On the one hand, Isiah claims he is upgrading the talent through the trades. If so, it decreases the chances of betting a Duncan or Pippen.
huh?

I just heard Isiah on MSG's "Sportsdesk." He said, in a way, this is like "our lottery," because of the talent upgrade in Rose and Taylor. If so, it makes it less likely that the Knicks will have the kind of draft pick to draft a franchise player.
djsunyc
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2/25/2005  12:12 AM
if this is our lottery, then this is the worst draft in nba history.
Solace
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2/25/2005  6:04 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why? Which teams won championships because they got stars by getting under the cap? I can think of at least zero

Sure, a very small minority of the championship teams did.

In fairness, has the salary cap been around long enough to make that judgement? At any rate, the cap is the difference between getting a star and an MLE player in the offseason, in many situations.

The Lakers won it because they got Shaq, Pistons because they got Rasheed.
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there's only one real downside to these trades....
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