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It's possible to be bad but ALSO
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Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  7:12 AM
not be far from being good. We've seen many teams go from 30-50 to 50-30 in one year without making substantial changes (just adding one good player and some role players). The Knicks are set at PG, have a decent SG, and a very good prospect at SF who probably just needs more time. They have the right trade assets to get one more very good player this offseason and some good role players with the right use of their expiring contracts, draft picks, MLE, and LLE.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02/24/2005 07:13:18]
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Killa4luv
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2/24/2005  7:21 AM
I been saying this all season long but many short sighted fools here want to blow everything up and start from scratch.
fishmike
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2/24/2005  8:53 AM
its also possible to be bad but ALSO close to VERY bad. Knicks have a lot of players that dont fit together. Ariza may never even be as good as Tayshaun Prince. He's athletic and plays hard and has had some nice games. Lets keep it in perspective.

If the Knicks are going to have the kind of turnaround your dreaming of the only way its happening is with some major luck; winning the lottery or having a MLE player fall into our lap like a Gadzurich, Walker or Swift.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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2/24/2005  8:54 AM
THe right kid in this draft might not yield a quick return, but can set the franchise with our youth for years.

We should work a Marbury-Nene (plus others of course) and work from there. I don't think we can turn this thing around in one year, but perhaps in two. We still lack the size up front.

while it becomes a lower probability, Allan still might contribute again, and that could help.

Marbs and KT to denver would help Denver a lot!
fishmike
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2/24/2005  9:14 AM
scratch any Marbury trade ideas... Isiah loves him and Marbury's here for at least a 2-3 year run.

We need size and we need a lot of it. we just dont have any. No team in the NBA has even won anything playing small ball. Det had 2 7 footers coming off the bench last year.

Bigs arent easy to get and the more you need them the harder they are to get.

I'm not impressed by expiring contracts. The only advantage they offer is if your willing to take a player with a bad contract back, or combine them with draft picks, two things that got us here in the first place.

Keeping them until next year's deadline is a different story, but if your expecting magic with them this offseason keep dreaming.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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2/24/2005  9:20 AM
Posted by fishmike:

scratch any Marbury trade ideas... Isiah loves him and Marbury's here for at least a 2-3 year run.

We need size and we need a lot of it. we just dont have any. No team in the NBA has even won anything playing small ball. Det had 2 7 footers coming off the bench last year.

Bigs arent easy to get and the more you need them the harder they are to get.

I'm not impressed by expiring contracts. The only advantage they offer is if your willing to take a player with a bad contract back, or combine them with draft picks, two things that got us here in the first place.

Keeping them until next year's deadline is a different story, but if your expecting magic with them this offseason keep dreaming.

I doubt Isiah could or would move Marbs. But for now we have proven that we can lose with the worst of them having KT and Marbs, and if we are going in the direction of youth, then that would be my preference. Few teams have a young big prospect they can spare and would be in a postition to win now with Marbs.

If Isiah sticks to his guns, he is moving in the right direction.
fishmike
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2/24/2005  9:24 AM
I agree, and when you see what the Kings traded Webber for its pretty obvious he could have been a Knick if Isiah wanted him. No way a TT/KT deal gets turned down.

He's been all over the scouting so I'm getting the feeling he's looking to use the draft this year. There will be interesting opportunities, especially with the new CBA pending
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  9:39 AM
I'm not concerned about luck in the draft. It would be nice to get lucky in the draft but I'm fine with getting about the 7th pick and most likely involving it and our expiring contracts in a trade to yield at least one star for Marbury to play with.
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  9:40 AM
Posted by fishmike:

its also possible to be bad but ALSO close to VERY bad.
Yup; Briggs and now Solace and some other posters post about that possibility a hundred times a day. (More often than I use the word "actually," Fish.) I thought for once we could have a thread where we consider the possibility that the team is not stuck given its nice young players and trade assets.
Solace
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2/24/2005  9:48 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

its also possible to be bad but ALSO close to VERY bad.
Yup; Briggs and now Solace and some other posters post about that possibility a hundred times a day. (More often than I use the word "actually," Fish.) I thought for once we could have a thread where we consider the possibility that the team is not stuck given its nice young players and trade assets.

100 times a day? If we make 100 posts a day, you must make 1000, since you have 5-10 posts in every thread. Look in the mirror before you criticize.

The point here is that we all agree this team needs some reworking to be successful. I'm not sold, by any means, on Marbury, but if he's here, he's here. Regardless of whether we keep Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney, etc... we need an improved frontcourt and a younger supporting cast to get good. Add those elements and we're talking.
...
Pharzeone
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2/24/2005  9:52 AM
Posted by Nalod:

THe right kid in this draft might not yield a quick return, but can set the franchise with our youth for years.

We should work a Marbury-Nene (plus others of course) and work from there. I don't think we can turn this thing around in one year, but perhaps in two. We still lack the size up front.

while it becomes a lower probability, Allan still might contribute again, and that could help.

Marbs and KT to denver would help Denver a lot!

Yeah, if you are a Nuggets fan you love the trade. You give up a nice role player bring in an all-star and nice role player too.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Solace
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2/24/2005  9:56 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Nalod:

THe right kid in this draft might not yield a quick return, but can set the franchise with our youth for years.

We should work a Marbury-Nene (plus others of course) and work from there. I don't think we can turn this thing around in one year, but perhaps in two. We still lack the size up front.

while it becomes a lower probability, Allan still might contribute again, and that could help.

Marbs and KT to denver would help Denver a lot!

Yeah, if you are a Nuggets fan you love the trade. You give up a nice role player bring in an all-star and nice role player too.

Marbs and KT for Nene, Dre Miller, Voshon Lenard, Skittles and a #1 works for me.

I don't think Denver trades Nene without getting KT or Nazr back, though.
...
fishmike
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2/24/2005  10:04 AM
well I think your in the minority when you talk about our trading assets. The Bulls have a lot of assets. They hacve a roster full of young talent players. We have Ariza, Sweetney and a bunch of terrible contracts nobody wants.

Whats the deal? Who are the expiring deals going to get? Curry? Chandler? Why would the Bulls take our expiring deals? They got rid of the only contract they didnt want when we overpaid for Crawford.

You talk about guys like Elton Brand but they only way we are getting a guy like that is if we trade our pick AFTER we win the lottery.

I dont see how we have the assets to get the "star" your talking about this offseason. Next trading deadline maybe, and thats only happening if we include picks and young players like we did last time.

Our best shot is a guy with major baggage like a Zach Randolf. Maybe if he punches another teammate we will have a better shot at him

Those expiring deals will be solid at NEXT year's trading deadline. Until then they arent worth doodoo, unless your taking a
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  11:40 AM
well I think your in the minority when you talk about our trading assets. The Bulls have a lot of assets. They hacve a roster full of young talent players. We have Ariza, Sweetney and a bunch of terrible contracts nobody wants.
Whats the deal? Who are the expiring deals going to get? Curry? Chandler? Why would the Bulls take our expiring deals? They got rid of the only contract they didnt want when we overpaid for Crawford.

I've given a list in several threads of players who I think we could get for any combination of one of our young players, our expiring contracts, and our lottery pick. I'm not going to take the time to repeat them. The wonderful thing is that we can see who was right and who was wrong in about 1 to 2 years.

And I don't care if I've been in the minority. I don't think I am either, but I'd also be in the minority if I predicted many of the 30-50 teams that did turn it around in one year would have done so.

100 times a day? If we make 100 posts a day, you must make 1000, since you have 5-10 posts in every thread. Look in the mirror before you criticize.

The point here is that we all agree this team needs some reworking to be successful. I'm not sold, by any means, on Marbury, but if he's here, he's here. Regardless of whether we keep Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney, etc... we need an improved frontcourt and a younger supporting cast to get good. Add those elements and we're talking.

I probably shouldn't have included you; Briggs is the one who creates five NEW threads a day with the same idea about the team having no future. Maybe I'll post this same type of thread as I just posted here each time he posts a new thread with the same idea, half mocking him and half to even things out a little.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02/24/2005 11:41:16]
Nalod
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2/24/2005  12:01 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
well I think your in the minority when you talk about our trading assets. The Bulls have a lot of assets. They hacve a roster full of young talent players. We have Ariza, Sweetney and a bunch of terrible contracts nobody wants.
Whats the deal? Who are the expiring deals going to get? Curry? Chandler? Why would the Bulls take our expiring deals? They got rid of the only contract they didnt want when we overpaid for Crawford.

I've given a list in several threads of players who I think we could get for any combination of one of our young players, our expiring contracts, and our lottery pick. I'm not going to take the time to repeat them. The wonderful thing is that we can see who was right and who was wrong in about 1 to 2 years.

And I don't care if I've been in the minority. I don't think I am either, but I'd also be in the minority if I predicted many of the 30-50 teams that did turn it around in one year would have done so.

100 times a day? If we make 100 posts a day, you must make 1000, since you have 5-10 posts in every thread. Look in the mirror before you criticize.

The point here is that we all agree this team needs some reworking to be successful. I'm not sold, by any means, on Marbury, but if he's here, he's here. Regardless of whether we keep Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney, etc... we need an improved frontcourt and a younger supporting cast to get good. Add those elements and we're talking.

I probably shouldn't have included you; Briggs is the one who creates five NEW threads a day with the same idea about the team having no future. Maybe I'll post this same type of thread as I just posted here each time he posts a new thread with the same idea, half mocking him and half to even things out a little.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02/24/2005 11:41:16]

Bonnie,

YOu really do get offended when you get smacked down.

Why do you think you ideas get piled on by folks?

Its your snits! You just have a way about your posts and try to create alliances against others when you don't agree.

People just don't like you dude, you just rup people the wrong way.

Your a bright fella, just let things go and enjoy the banter.
fishmike
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2/24/2005  12:48 PM
lol... he called you "Bonnie"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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2/24/2005  12:55 PM
If Isiah doesn't play his cards right, we very well could be very bad next season, and that might not be a good thing, with the new age limit (No Oden). If no HS players come out next yearm it would be a complete disaster is we had something like, a 35 or so winning season. I think that's why Isiah really has to consider just finish rebuilding through the draft and MLE. If we continue taking on players with baggage (For our picks and young assets and expiring contracts), we don't guarantee ourselves a championship quality team. Marbury is fine. We got lucky that all we had to give up was Lampe and Milos (And expiring contracts). However, what if the next time, teams ask for 2 future picks, sweetney, ariza and TT AND Penny. Similar to the Marbury deal. I am sorry, but if I am giving up that, you BETTER give me back someone reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal good, and I'm not talking about Zach.

If you ask me, I think we are MUCH better off just letting Ariza develop along with Sweetney, as well as whatever picks (Hey, I love this Warrick kid) and letting the contracts come off the books.

Back to Ariza: Fish, you brought up an interesting comparison, and I was actually thinking of the same exact thing recently. Ariza and Prince. If Ariza ends up turning out to be the way Prince is now, I would be absolutely THRILLED. And I think it is highly possible. Ariza just needs to gain some strength.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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2/24/2005  1:03 PM
Prince is longer, Ariza is stronger... we will see. I like Ariza's toughness. He's definatly going to stick at this level. Now is it as a starting SF/SG that gives you 14/8 a night or an energy bench player thats more like 8/4 for 18 minutes? That remains to be seen..

I do think the Knicks will be better. Isiah is a good talent guy and there are some helpfull MLE level players out there. That may mean we are only about a .500 team but even with improved coaching and chemistry we will be better.

A LOT of teams will be looking for flexibility and cap space after next year. Having TT/Penny in their walk years will be important as teams look to go after the RFA class which includes Yao, Gooden, Amare, Nene, Butler, Wilcox, Fred Jones, Jeffries and Prince.

Still... teams still want a pick or young guy if they are going to give up real talent. Penny and the #15 pick isnt getting Elton Brand.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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2/24/2005  1:47 PM
if the cba gets tighter on the cap, then we need to let those deals die instead of trading them for new salary. We might not be able to use this methoed to obtain players. our tax could be higher than many teams payroll!

And we still need to resign Reezy and sweets at some point!

But what do I know, I thought Vin would be the comeback player of the year!
Nalod
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2/24/2005  1:49 PM
Posted by fishmike:

lol... he called you "Bonnie"

"exactly!"

"I was thinking the same thing"

"LMAO!"

or

"Actually, I was exactualy thinkin the same things and LMAO"

Those just few example's of famous snits from our little Bonnie.
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