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I'm sorry, but we need a total reconfiguration of this team
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fishmike
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2/23/2005  2:03 PM
my point was cap space alone means crap. If you dont have good players to build around signing a good FA doesnt help you anyway. Look at what cap space did for the Bulls, they thought they were getting TMac, instead they got Eddie Robinson.

The Knicks wont be bad enough to add the cheap impact players you get with high draft picks. Now your talking about if one of your players (Sweetney) blossums its actually a negative because you will have to pay him? What kind of backwards thinking is that?

You dont need cap space to execute in the draft and make smart trades and scout extensively. The Knicks can afford to overpay and buy other team's late picks in cash deals. Other teams dont have that luxury. Instead of paying $30mm for TT and Penny wouldnt you rather use of that money to draft guys like I mentioned? Guys like Earl Watson, Duhon, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, David Harrison, Ariza, Arenas... will every extra pick be a guy like that? Of course not, but MSG can afford to pay Shandon $8mm not to play they can certainly afford to cut a guy in a low paying rookie contract.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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newyorknewyork
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2/23/2005  3:08 PM
Im all for Webber if he can really be had for KT & an expiring contract like Penny or Tim Thomas and nothing more. But the time to do it is in the summer so we don't win games and get out of #6 or contention for #5 pick. You add Webber & a top 6 pick in the draft along with Marbury-Crawford-Ariza-Sweetney then you have a contender as well as young players that will continue to grow. Possibly even add in another first rd pick OR Kwame some how and your really cooking.

It would be a DREAM if we moved #6 & Muhammad-Norris for Curry(S&T). KT & Thomas or Penny for Webber. Or KT & Thomas or Penny for Webber and moved Muhammad for Kwame Brown to play center. Or if we traded #6 for Al Harrington & KT & Thomas or Penny for Webber.

Curry, Webber, Ariza, Crawford, Marbury, Sweetney
Brown, Webber, Ariza, Crawford, Marbury, Sweetney
Muhammad, Webber, Harrington, Crawford, Marbury, Sweetney

Its all to good to be true though so im guessing none of that happends we draft solid with #6 and nothing else this summer. It does seem like Kwame Brown if of big interest but we would probably have to take Etan Thomas long contract for him. And Zeke might not be willing to take a contract that long.
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Pharzeone
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2/23/2005  3:15 PM
Posted by fishmike:

my point was cap space alone means crap. If you dont have good players to build around signing a good FA doesnt help you anyway. Look at what cap space did for the Bulls, they thought they were getting TMac, instead they got Eddie Robinson.

The Knicks wont be bad enough to add the cheap impact players you get with high draft picks. Now your talking about if one of your players (Sweetney) blossums its actually a negative because you will have to pay him? What kind of backwards thinking is that?

You dont need cap space to execute in the draft and make smart trades and scout extensively. The Knicks can afford to overpay and buy other team's late picks in cash deals. Other teams dont have that luxury. Instead of paying $30mm for TT and Penny wouldnt you rather use of that money to draft guys like I mentioned? Guys like Earl Watson, Duhon, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, David Harrison, Ariza, Arenas... will every extra pick be a guy like that? Of course not, but MSG can afford to pay Shandon $8mm not to play they can certainly afford to cut a guy in a low paying rookie contract.

I agree with what you are saying. Though you shouldn't use the Bulls. There were other factors involve. Top free agents didn't flock to Chi town because of his Airness. I know T'Mac thought that. But you are right, we could be under the cap for any reason and people won't come. Look at the Jazz. I mean Carlos B. and Okur were their big sign for 2 years under the cap. But I would hope people would want to come here but there are other factors involve. Money ain't a issue just playing under the cap restricted rules is.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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2/23/2005  3:25 PM
same thing can be said about NY? What FA is going to come here to be the savior? Its no secret what the NY media is like. When Houston and Childs came here Ewing was the guy. Who was the last FA to come here? Spoon? Lots of good players are signed for the MLE every year. Where's ours? Baker?

Thank god we have Isiah in that regard, simply because he will absorb so much of the media fodder. We need a saleman to get guys in here.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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2/23/2005  3:59 PM
from the get go, I know that this Knicks team wasn't going to be good. I gave them a chance at winning 45 to 50 games that was only given that TT would have been productive and Kurt Thomas traded. None of that have happened and we all are now complaining. This team really needs to reconfigure. We have a lot of talents on our roster, but we are missing a greedy veteran that can help blend the talents that we have. Our front-line is a huge problem and it will not be resolved until perhaps we can get a pretty good player from the draft or through trade. All that talk about Marshall to me is pointless. Jalen Rose could be a pretty good acquisition, but at whose expense.

Trade deadline is tomorrow, and one of the names that I would definitely love for Isiah to acquire is CWebb. He is definitely heand and shoulder above anyother big man that we can get right now. I am hoping that we can get both Jalen Rose and CWebb.
The true Knickabocker..........
s3231
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2/23/2005  4:05 PM
The Webber trade talk just amuses me... it would be bad for both teams if a trade was made sending Webber to NY by the deadline. The Kings would no longer be contenders this season. As for us, we would get some more wins while missing the playoffs which would give us a worse draft pick. I think Webber will be coming in the offseason, but I doubt he gets traded by the deadline.


[Edited by - s3231 on 02/23/2005 16:06:42]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
diderotn
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2/23/2005  4:12 PM
Frankly, all I want to see right now is Kurt Thomas traded. Jalen Rose is easier to obtain right now, and he is a good enough player with the confidence necessary to help this ball club out. He is a scorrer and most of all has the attitude that we are badly missing....

Kurt and Penny for Rose and Marshallll
The true Knickabocker..........
MaTT4281
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2/23/2005  4:15 PM
If you're looking to trade Kurt, I think the Kurt for a pick talks are the way to go. Who suggested Kurt for Rose/Sato/Spurs 1st rounder? I am definately on board for that.
NYKBocker
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2/23/2005  4:17 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Frankly, all I want to see right now is Kurt Thomas traded. Jalen Rose is easier to obtain right now, and he is a good enough player with the confidence necessary to help this ball club out. He is a scorrer and most of all has the attitude that we are badly missing....

Kurt and Penny for Rose and Marshallll

That is a lousy trade for us. How many albatross contracts do we need? Kurt is one of our true tradable assetss along with Penny and TT's contract this coming off-season. You are telling me that you want to trade these assets for Rose and Marshall. Patience is a virtue.
fishmike
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2/23/2005  4:29 PM
[IMG_block] http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/marty_burns/02/23/rebuilding/g1_makeover2.jpg [/IMG_block]

This pic cracked me up... how appropriate
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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2/23/2005  4:33 PM
looks like next year's starting lineup...
¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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2/23/2005  6:28 PM
maybe our starting line up next year


c- earl bokins
pf-andre barret
sf-nate robinson
sg-ty lue
PG- Slavo Vranes
RIP Crushalot😞
s3231
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2/23/2005  6:32 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

maybe our starting line up next year


c- earl bokins
pf-andre barret
sf-nate robinson
sg-ty lue
PG- Slavo Vranes









you forgot to put the words summer league in front of starting lineup
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
djsunyc
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2/23/2005  6:54 PM
nothing new here in this post. we've said this A MILLION TIMES over and over, with you briggs being the volume leader.

i think WE ALL AGREE. let's focus on what we can do now. let's focus on getting sweets and ariza into the lineup and moving marbs to SG.

there is almost nothing we can do right now other than trading marbury and kurt. marbury is NOT getting traded so let's get that out of the way. kurt is trade bait #1. everybody, including isiah knows this. so let's see what happens until tomorrow at 3pm. and then let's watch sweets get some minutes.

until then, we can post this till we're blue in the face but nothing changes. we might as well keep a copy of this link so we can just repost it next wednesday.
Bonn1997
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2/23/2005  7:11 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

nothing new here in this post. we've said this A MILLION TIMES over and over, with you briggs being the volume leader.
exactly
matt
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2/23/2005  7:21 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

Bonn, I'm with you on holding onto Marbury, but there is a difference between distributing the ball and collecting assists. When I think of distributing the ball, I think of good ball movement, guys passing the ball 3 or 4 times to find the open man. I'm not saying Marbury can't be part of that movement, but he does have a tendency to dominate the ball.

I agree. Marbury is not the problem. Lets get some other decent players on the team before we write him off. Keep Ariza, Crawford, and Sweetney and build from that.
nyk4ever
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2/23/2005  8:00 PM
I'm all for rebuilding and I think the team should be rebuilt around Marbury. Lets be honest, not even Steve Nash and Jason Kidd would be succeeding with this current Knicks roster, thats why I don't get the "we suck becuase of Marbury talk" not even those guys could help us out. Lets get some players to put around Marbury, I'm a huge Kurt Thomas fan but he's more of a complimentary starter on the frontline next to a good post player. If the Knicks were to give Marbury a big man to throw the ball to, I think things would be much different around here wins/losses wise. I love the core that we have started so far with Marbury, Crawford, Ariza and Sweetney; its a great start but until the Knicks get that big man that can control the paint there wont be much to talk about besides playoff runs that end at the hands of Lebron James and Shaquille O'Neal.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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2/23/2005  9:45 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Briggs, how long do you think its going to take? We have had a new GM for one year. Do you honestly think the guys you mentioned are going to be here in 2 years? Was the GM in Denver for the all star game trying to trade for Webber or was he scouting college games?

I dont think your being negative, rather impatient. It would be nice to say "I dont like this group" and snap your fingers and have a do-over. Only problem is we had a $90mm payroll consisting of such stars as McDyess, Ward, Eisley, KVH, Shandon Anderson, Spoon, Doleac, Houston, Harrington, Mutumbo... its unreal when you think of it.

You can say we took on money and that means we are trying to win right away, but the only way we were dumping some of those guys was to take on more money.
Exactly; how long will this plan of Briggs take? Why should we give him more than 1 year if he won't give Isiah more than 1 year?
Pharzeone
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2/24/2005  10:51 AM
[/quote]
Exactly; how long will this plan of Briggs take? Why should we give him more than 1 year if he won't give Isiah more than 1 year?
[/quote]

good point.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
s3231
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2/24/2005  11:28 AM
Seriously, when Isiah first came everybody was saying how our franchise was a mess and would take a long time to fix. Even though Isiah brought Marbury here it doesn't mean that he can fix everything else in a year. We still have a long way to go.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
I'm sorry, but we need a total reconfiguration of this team

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