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Put Crawford at PG
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martin
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2/22/2005  1:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:

its hard to judge Marbury's defense with this team. When the Suns played the Spurs Marbury totally locked down Tony Parker. I watched every game and didnt remember being suprised because I didnt realize Marbury was such a good defender. Whenever Parker drove Marbury pushed him baseline right into Amare, Marion or Bo Outlaw. Parker was stiffled, Marbury has a monster series and if he doesnt hurt his ankle the Suns might upset.

Marbury's defense has been bad this year. He's had some good games on D, some total no shows and and some nights where he was just going through the motions on that end.

yes, interesting. I think that almost any quick 1 or 2 can get by his man in the NBA, and the best a defender can do is put up a hand when the shot goes off, fight over and around picks, and then guide the player either towards the baseline or towards a shotblocker. Knicks don't have a shotblocker.
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fishmike
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2/22/2005  2:08 PM
the perimeter defenders that are lock down guys all have one thing in common... they are long. Bowen, Prince, Patterson... Kidd and Payton are the best defensive PGs and they do most of their damage on the ball, not contesting their opponents shot.

Make no mistake. Marbury doesnt fight over screens and isnt physical on defense. He's shown flashes but he always seems to fall into bad habits
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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2/22/2005  2:25 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the perimeter defenders that are lock down guys all have one thing in common... they are long. Bowen, Prince, Patterson... Kidd and Payton are the best defensive PGs and they do most of their damage on the ball, not contesting their opponents shot.

Make no mistake. Marbury doesnt fight over screens and isnt physical on defense. He's shown flashes but he always seems to fall into bad habits

i think alot of it stems from his minutes. i think if we kept him in the 32-35 min range, herb could sell him on exerting some more energy on the defensive end. getting another SG or PG should be on isiah's list this offseason. without marbury on the court, the team is in disarray. he gets 2 minutes off in the 2nd and 2 minutes off in the 4th. plus he has to carry the offense. i can see why he coasts on the defensive end. i'm not condoning it but i see why.
Pharzeone
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2/22/2005  2:28 PM
Posted by Solace:

What's unrealistic? How are you supposed to win with a guy who doesn't play defense at all? Tim Thomas does more on defense than Marbury.

The problem I have with Marbury is he has a ton of natural athletic ability, a ton of talent, and yet he seems content with just being 'good'. He doesn't do enough to make his teammates better. Overall Odom is comparable talent-wise, but Odom is younger, much taller and a much rarer breed. An athletic big man who can pass, shoot, rebound... a PG in a SF/PF body. To me, there's no contest. You can even play Odom at PG, if you need to.

Yeah, and no team wants to keep him. Forget about Marbury being described as a loser. Can Odom ever stick to one place. Odom looks good from a distance. Riles found that out (chasing that guy since the draft), Lakers too.

I would not trade Marbury for him because I would like to see them both together. Here is an idea for Knick fans, have multiple all-star caliber players. BTW, if some people think Marbury is hurt by being so close to home. Imagine Odom back in his old stumping ground in Queens, same with Artest (who I spot during the summer months cruising with his "crew" around Queens). If you think that Pistons game was bad... One of Odom's boys slap around H20 because he didn't pass Odom the ball on time and stuff.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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2/22/2005  2:41 PM
Odom cant stick around? huh? He was signed by Riles for almost max money (about $10mm to start). He had his best season as a pro and led the Heat to the playoffs.

Oh yea.. then the Heat didnt want him and dumped him (for Shaq)

Odom is one of the NBA's most talented players plain and simple. The Clippers didnt resign him because they were worried about the past off court issues (pot). Mia signed him and Odom was a monster.

By the way the trade is for Odom AND the Lakers pick. Thats important to me and I'm not sure I make the deal without the extra #1.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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2/22/2005  3:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Odom cant stick around? huh? He was signed by Riles for almost max money (about $10mm to start). He had his best season as a pro and led the Heat to the playoffs.

Oh yea.. then the Heat didnt want him and dumped him (for Shaq)

Odom is one of the NBA's most talented players plain and simple. The Clippers didnt resign him because they were worried about the past off court issues (pot). Mia signed him and Odom was a monster.

By the way the trade is for Odom AND the Lakers pick. Thats important to me and I'm not sure I make the deal without the extra #1.

In comparing him to the Marbury, yeah, he can't stick either for whatever reason. Marbury puts up big #s too but you want to trade him for a guy who is the same boat. BTW, I thought that Wade led the Heat to the playoffs. It is all the same to me. An all-star (Marbury, Odom, McGrady) can't carry a team to the playoffs and beyond, it is hard for a superstar/franchise type to win a title without help (see Ewing). Why do the Knicks have to either or. Why do we have to give up an all-star to get another one. If the deal was Kobe for Marbury then hell yeah. An all-star for a superstar/franchise type. I never understood the Knicks notion that if we get a big star then we can just fill out the roster with role players or once all-stars past their prime. Get Odom w/o giving Marbury.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Allanfan20
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2/22/2005  3:14 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:

What's unrealistic? How are you supposed to win with a guy who doesn't play defense at all? Tim Thomas does more on defense than Marbury.

The problem I have with Marbury is he has a ton of natural athletic ability, a ton of talent, and yet he seems content with just being 'good'. He doesn't do enough to make his teammates better. Overall Odom is comparable talent-wise, but Odom is younger, much taller and a much rarer breed. An athletic big man who can pass, shoot, rebound... a PG in a SF/PF body. To me, there's no contest. You can even play Odom at PG, if you need to.

Yeah, and no team wants to keep him. Forget about Marbury being described as a loser. Can Odom ever stick to one place. Odom looks good from a distance. Riles found that out (chasing that guy since the draft), Lakers too.

I would not trade Marbury for him because I would like to see them both together. Here is an idea for Knick fans, have multiple all-star caliber players. BTW, if some people think Marbury is hurt by being so close to home. Imagine Odom back in his old stumping ground in Queens, same with Artest (who I spot during the summer months cruising with his "crew" around Queens). If you think that Pistons game was bad... One of Odom's boys slap around H20 because he didn't pass Odom the ball on time and stuff.

I don't think it's bad that Marbury is playing in his hometown at all. I think it's good actually. What I do think is bad is Marbury having this close relationship with Isiah. I see that as unhealthy for the team. But Marbury playing in NY, his home state is fine.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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2/22/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:

What's unrealistic? How are you supposed to win with a guy who doesn't play defense at all? Tim Thomas does more on defense than Marbury.

The problem I have with Marbury is he has a ton of natural athletic ability, a ton of talent, and yet he seems content with just being 'good'. He doesn't do enough to make his teammates better. Overall Odom is comparable talent-wise, but Odom is younger, much taller and a much rarer breed. An athletic big man who can pass, shoot, rebound... a PG in a SF/PF body. To me, there's no contest. You can even play Odom at PG, if you need to.

Yeah, and no team wants to keep him. Forget about Marbury being described as a loser. Can Odom ever stick to one place. Odom looks good from a distance. Riles found that out (chasing that guy since the draft), Lakers too.

I would not trade Marbury for him because I would like to see them both together. Here is an idea for Knick fans, have multiple all-star caliber players. BTW, if some people think Marbury is hurt by being so close to home. Imagine Odom back in his old stumping ground in Queens, same with Artest (who I spot during the summer months cruising with his "crew" around Queens). If you think that Pistons game was bad... One of Odom's boys slap around H20 because he didn't pass Odom the ball on time and stuff.

I don't think it's bad that Marbury is playing in his hometown at all. I think it's good actually. What I do think is bad is Marbury having this close relationship with Isiah. I see that as unhealthy for the team. But Marbury playing in NY, his home state is fine.

I love Zeke, but he has many flaws and that is one of them. Some players he love and some hate. Weird really. He hates Ewing just for the fact that Ewing is close to Jordan. He loves Marbury because he reminds him of himself. Urban pg that media love to attack. If the media start blowing Marbury kisses, I believe Zeke would turn on him quick. I don't blame Marbury though for their relationship, all players want to have a good relationship with ownership and management. Hell H20 got his $100 million because he tees off with Dolan and goes out to dinner, and discuss the power of Christ with him too. Zeke has issues with H20 back to their days in Detroit, but he won't diss him because he knows he is a Dolan guy. So he takes it out on a guy like Shandon Anderson. That's Zeke.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bonn1997
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2/22/2005  5:51 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:

What's unrealistic? How are you supposed to win with a guy who doesn't play defense at all? Tim Thomas does more on defense than Marbury.

The problem I have with Marbury is he has a ton of natural athletic ability, a ton of talent, and yet he seems content with just being 'good'. He doesn't do enough to make his teammates better. Overall Odom is comparable talent-wise, but Odom is younger, much taller and a much rarer breed. An athletic big man who can pass, shoot, rebound... a PG in a SF/PF body. To me, there's no contest. You can even play Odom at PG, if you need to.

Yeah, and no team wants to keep him. Forget about Marbury being described as a loser. Can Odom ever stick to one place. Odom looks good from a distance. Riles found that out (chasing that guy since the draft), Lakers too.

I would not trade Marbury for him because I would like to see them both together. Here is an idea for Knick fans, have multiple all-star caliber players. BTW, if some people think Marbury is hurt by being so close to home. Imagine Odom back in his old stumping ground in Queens, same with Artest (who I spot during the summer months cruising with his "crew" around Queens). If you think that Pistons game was bad... One of Odom's boys slap around H20 because he didn't pass Odom the ball on time and stuff.

I don't think it's bad that Marbury is playing in his hometown at all. I think it's good actually. What I do think is bad is Marbury having this close relationship with Isiah. I see that as unhealthy for the team. But Marbury playing in NY, his home state is fine.

I love Zeke, but he has many flaws and that is one of them. Some players he love and some hate. Weird really. He hates Ewing just for the fact that Ewing is close to Jordan. He loves Marbury because he reminds him of himself. Urban pg that media love to attack. If the media start blowing Marbury kisses, I believe Zeke would turn on him quick. I don't blame Marbury though for their relationship, all players want to have a good relationship with ownership and management. Hell H20 got his $100 million because he tees off with Dolan and goes out to dinner, and discuss the power of Christ with him too. Zeke has issues with H20 back to their days in Detroit, but he won't diss him because he knows he is a Dolan guy. So he takes it out on a guy like Shandon Anderson. That's Zeke.
Hating some players isn't healthy. Being this close to Marbury could work out great or terribly. It's too early to know.
Bonn1997
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2/22/2005  6:07 PM
Posted by fishmike:

for this team its a solid trade.
Say we pick 7 and get the Laker's #17. We draft Sheldon Williams (Brigg's sweetheart from Duke) and Louis Williams (HS kid with SICK speed ranked among highest in the country)

We really inject our team with speed and toughness and size. Call Houston a scratch for next year and TT/Penny are on the firesale trading block your team looks like this:
PG Crawford 6'5
SG Ariza 6'8
SF Odom 6'10
PF KT 6'9
C Nazr 6'10
With Sheldon Williams, Sweetney, Louis Williams off the bench thats a MUCH improved core of players moving foward.

I love Marbury but if it makes us better hasta la vista
Crawford starting at PG would kill the team because of his poor decision-making. He's VERY far from being ready to be a team's starting PG. The ideal role for him is the one Isiah brought him here for--as energetic sixth man
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