Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by bernard:

Reason I and I assume many others have lowered our expectations of Sweet is his rebounding. This year, he's an OK rebounder. Last season and preseason, he looked like he'd be the next Paul Silas. Don't know what happened. Still has the great hands, just doesn't seem to have that "every ball is mine" attitude anymore.

His offense is as good or better than I thought it'd be. Defense isn't as bad as many on this board say, imo. Decent BB IQ. Just isn't turning into the monster bounder I'd hoped. W/o the boards, think Briggs is right. He's a good 6th man or, at best, an average starting PF.

His rebound efficiency is not where it was last year; you're right. Other than that, I think he's played well and he should be starting

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02/17/2005 13:29:14]

he got a ton of offensive rebounds last year. that was b/c he wasn't involved in the offense at all. now he's setting picks up high and getting the ball in the post, hence the drop off in of offensive rebounds. his defensive should still be the same.

I'm not convinced one way or another. Ive seen him score at will against starting PFs and Cs. We have seen him produce big numbers when he gets solid minutes, we have seen him pick up 4 fouls in 6 minutes of play.

I still want to see him play some 10 game stretch for 30 plus minutes and see what we get. His body makes him a non conventional player.

If he's a 6th man type guy for us thats fine. I could see him giving you 12/7 off the bench for 20-25 minutes a night. Thats pretty damn good, but I'm not ready to resign to that fact.

I think he is doing just fine. He is progressing and will be a starter in the future, or a solid front asset should we be great at the 4 and 5. He still has a 7 foot wingspan and has much better foot movement this year.

Why such a fuss over starting? Its minutes played, and who finishes that counts! Isiah is getting him at the end of the game will teach him so much than him starting the game in foul trouble and never getting a rythem in the game!

Posted by fishmike:

His body makes him a non conventional player.

it's funny b/c the league is evolving or already turned into an athletic one where the players at each position all sort of morph into one another. you have multiple position players all with the same build. the key phrase is "young and athletic". and here you have a guy who's a throwback. no face up and try to dribble around and dunk. no alley oops. just a big body in the deep post that uses his size to get good positioning and body control to make shots after contact.

it'll be interesting to see how this team and others react when he's on the court. we already see double teams.

for once, i'd like the other team to ALTER their game to accomodate for our PF.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by fishmike:

His body makes him a non conventional player.

it's funny b/c the league is evolving or already turned into an athletic one where the players at each position all sort of morph into one another. you have multiple position players all with the same build. the key phrase is "young and athletic". and here you have a guy who's a throwback. no face up and try to dribble around and dunk. no alley oops. just a big body in the deep post that uses his size to get good positioning and body control to make shots after contact.

it'll be interesting to see how this team and others react when he's on the court. we already see double teams.

for once, i'd like the other team to ALTER their game to accomodate for our PF.

Good point, Sweets is developing into a monster! He many never be able to play 35-38 min due to his body type. But he need not go OVER players, when its just a productive, if even more so to got THROUGH them, and get fouls. This is his game. He is not leaper like barkley, nor quick like Brand. Traylor game is more like his body type, but Track is not as gifted as Sweets, and perhaps teams will have to figure out what to do with him.

I doubt KT and Nazr are good compliments to him, but thats what we got for now. I Think Sweets is very strong, good hands, inhales balls in the post and rebounds, and his greatness will come from developing his skill level. He can destroy alot of these skinny kids can jump, but lack fundamentals!

KT is better than Sweetney. Once Sweetney's career is over, you'll know who the better player was. For now, KT is much better than Sweetney.

Sweetney will never be a superstar. Superstars are superstars before they come into the league, with very few exceptions (Ben Wallace - just kind of suddenly improved and stayed good; Jermaine O'Neal wasn't getting playing time, once he did he really stepped up; but McGrady was pegged as the next Scottie Pippen when he was still in HS; everyone knew Duncan would be a superstar when he was at WF) Sweetney would be a starter on a team if the center is Yao or Shaq, or the small forward is 7 ft. tall, moves like a guard and defends the lane like a PF is normally supposed to. But, under most circumstances, Sweetney is a quality bench player.

Only start the guy if you A) trade KT and B) don't get a real starting PF. OR, if you don't care about losing the remaining games(always possible) play him to get him some experience, but he will never improve beyond being a solid role player.

Look, Brand was the top player in the draft years ago, and was expected to be a superstar. He isn't - he's a second or third option type player. Sweetney isn't nearly as good as Brand, so that should tell you something. If you're not half as good as a guy who isn't all that, why is it so important to focus on the guy?! The only way the Knicks can get a superstar PF is to draft him, and that means a top 3 pick, and that means getting as many ping pong balls as possible, year after year, until they do. And by superstar, I don't mean mid-tier players like Shareef or Randolph or KMart or Boozer - or guys on the decline like Webber. I mean Duncan and Garnett-level players. Without that, you're not a contender. You're alternative is to think you can emulate what Detroit did last year, but that takes strong defense from every position on the floor. That may be harder in this league than getting a superstar.

Briggs is totally correct, though. Sweets is a 6th man in training.

can we PLEASE just ONCE realize that simple fact and when we are in a position such as we are TANK the rest of the season? Who cares if we finish 11th... its so insulting. Bogut may not be Lebron but just once I would like a real CHANCE to draft him.

I'm not talking about wasting a season, Im talking about taking advantage of a season thats a waste. I hope Isiah wakes up this weekend and Mon-Tues we hear the announcement that some of these frontcourt guys are gone and some picks are coming back.

The rangers did it and we stink just as bad as they do.

Posted by DefAndReb:

KT is better than Sweetney. Once Sweetney's career is over, you'll know who the better player was. For now, KT is much better than Sweetney.

Sweetney will never be a superstar. Superstars are superstars before they come into the league, with very few exceptions (Ben Wallace - just kind of suddenly improved and stayed good; Jermaine O'Neal wasn't getting playing time, once he did he really stepped up; but McGrady was pegged as the next Scottie Pippen when he was still in HS; everyone knew Duncan would be a superstar when he was at WF) Sweetney would be a starter on a team if the center is Yao or Shaq, or the small forward is 7 ft. tall, moves like a guard and defends the lane like a PF is normally supposed to. But, under most circumstances, Sweetney is a quality bench player.

Only start the guy if you A) trade KT and B) don't get a real starting PF. OR, if you don't care about losing the remaining games(always possible) play him to get him some experience, but he will never improve beyond being a solid role player.

Look, Brand was the top player in the draft years ago, and was expected to be a superstar. He isn't - he's a second or third option type player. Sweetney isn't nearly as good as Brand, so that should tell you something. If you're not half as good as a guy who isn't all that, why is it so important to focus on the guy?! The only way the Knicks can get a superstar PF is to draft him, and that means a top 3 pick, and that means getting as many ping pong balls as possible, year after year, until they do. And by superstar, I don't mean mid-tier players like Shareef or Randolph or KMart or Boozer - or guys on the decline like Webber. I mean Duncan and Garnett-level players. Without that, you're not a contender. You're alternative is to think you can emulate what Detroit did last year, but that takes strong defense from every position on the floor. That may be harder in this league than getting a superstar.

Briggs is totally correct, though. Sweets is a 6th man in training.

That's not true at all. Actually just the opposite occurs, most guys rated high on draft rarely make it. See your line of Duke, Michigan, Indiana, Syracuse players, and UK players if you don't believe me. "The Next comings". They never arrive. Then NBA GMs recognize this and well international "can't miss; give him time; more fundamentals" players were the flavor for the new NBA superstar, then the HS thing. I mean it is rare that a player ever lives up to the superstar hype.

Posted by MS:

Sweetney is a bench player right now, has he ever had a game of 20 and 10, i am not sure, also he needs to lose 25 pounds if he wants to reach his potential

KT is 235, Naz is 250, and Sweetney is 270. He is to fat to play consistent minutes because he is not quick enough to guard anyone and is the reason he is in foul trouble.....

Actually, Kurt's the one with feet so slow that he can't guard most starting PFs. Mike's a better man to man defender than Kurt. He just needs to work on his help defense.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

6th man role is an IMPORTANT role on a good team. there is no time limit on a 6th man, but I see mike as a 24-28 minute player of the bench who can spark the team on the offensive end and rebound the ball. EVERY good team needs a solid 6th man and we have one in place, and he can also start if needed. thats a good piece. hes going to have soem monster 25 +15 games and then there will be nights where he 2-6 4 rebounds 5 fouls. Well see what comes up, but there is no denying that we need to put a guy on the starting frontline that rebounds and defends with power, but also has a POST up game.

KT is 33 next year before season starts. this is where Knicks get in trouble, you have to be able to know when to say when in terms of age. We need a new 3-4-5. At this point, I value Ariza as a 9th man in a 9 man rotation. But right now, as of last night we relied on a lot of older players to get things done. Just like a lot of guys, they're in their primes and whack, something shuts them off just like houston sam casell, isiah et al. You need to have replacements set up.

i would love to come out of this draft with 3 players. If we can trade anyone[they wont] but also, I would consider investing in buying some draft picks if I could to expedite the process.

Its like putting a little more money into a farm system in baeball. Buy 2 picks for 2mm each or around there and it could be money very well spent,.......

I don't understand why you keep equating Personel Fouls into your theory as to whether Sweetney should start or not. What does picking up fouls have to do with anything about starting? NBA fouls are the most subjective thing in all sports. They're a joke. Shaq's first year in the league he was picking up offensive and defensive fouls right and left. Then he was announced as the "Next Big Thing." He stop picking up the fouls. He didn't changed his style of play, he just became a superstar. Believe me if Sweets start putting up 20/10 a nite on an average. Guess what he won't be picking up the fouls so quick, it will be the scrubs guarding him. NBA officials are jokes.

Ft is just an aspect of a bigger problem, Mike cant defend premium post players very well. It's not the foul, its the defnsive play. Also, on the offensive end, he has trouble against many bigger players. Not all, but the better one's give him trouble. What is wrong with saying that Mike can be a big part of the team as a sixth man? He still is getting big minutes and is a large contributor. he's just not the type of PF that is going to get you to the level that you need. you need a guy who get stop people in the post. Good/Great basketball players can come from anywhere, but most come from tier one schools/other than the hS kids who came in.

Just to list some
Ray Allen-ct
Shaq-lSU
Tim Duncan Wake Forest
Paul Pierce -Kansas
Dwayne Wade-Marquette
Grant Hill-Duke
Steve Francis-Maryland
Stephon Marbury GT

etc..
yes there are some players who came from smaller schools, but for the most part they are tier 1 and they are there for a reason.

Knicks off the top of my head

Nazr-Kentucky
Kt-Texas Christian
SF TT-Villanova
Craw-Michigan
Step-GT
Sweet_Gtown
Penny-Memphis
JYD-G Town
Ariza-UCLA


even Ben Wallace came from a school that had a famous nBA player--Charles Oakley Virginia Union

Posted by fishmike:

someone should count the number of times Bonn starts his post with "actually"

just for fun of course

actually, I think that's an awful idea, actually