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man, if nj was in win now mode, they could've had kurt instead
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djsunyc
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2/16/2005  1:47 PM
kurt for that exemption and instead of 2 #2's, just give us a #1.

kurt is a good player but i'm resolved to the notion we will not get a player of equal value in return (which is fine with me) but we need that additional pick. i'm almost inclined to trade kurt for just the salary relief and 2 #2's. it sounds desperate but i think getting him off our roster should be priority #1. that would give us a #1 and 3 #2's. that's nice considering isiah's history of drafting.

and now we're talking about a payroll of $64 mil instead of $70 mil after 05/06.
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TMS
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2/16/2005  1:54 PM
KT also has a longterm contract & that trade kicker to boot, making him less desirable than his actual production may warrant.
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djsunyc
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2/16/2005  1:59 PM
Posted by TMS:

KT also has a longterm contract & that trade kicker to boot, making him less desirable than his actual production may warrant.

he does but the GM said they're in win now mode and kurt is a 50x better player than uncle spliffy.
gunsnewing
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2/16/2005  2:06 PM
Posted by TMS:

KT also has a longterm contract & that trade kicker to boot, making him less desirable than his actual production may warrant.

thats why I'm afraid he may be a Knick at least until next year's trade deadline

I wouldn't have a problem with having him come off the bench but I just dont see it happening not with his ego and the strive for the 8th seed current Knicks mode
newyorknewyork
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2/16/2005  2:11 PM
Kidd wants out of NJ. Wants to play with Kevin Garnett and has been asking for a trade since the summer.
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fishmike
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2/16/2005  2:18 PM
You may see that this weekend. Kidd and scrub for Sprewell (expiring deal) and Cassel and Minn's 2005 #1.

Then the Wolves trade EJ and Eddie Griffin for KT

I would do that if I'm the Wolves... move Troy Hudson to guard and you have a solid team

Kidd
Hudson
Wally
KG
Kandi

with Kurt, Hoiberg and Hassle coming off the bench. You put lots of shooters around Kidd and KG and have nice guys that are tough on D coming off the bench in Kurt and Trenton Hassle
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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2/16/2005  2:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:

You may see that this weekend. Kidd and scrub for Sprewell (expiring deal) and Cassel and Minn's 2005 #1.

Then the Wolves trade EJ and Eddie Griffin for KT

I would do that if I'm the Wolves... move Troy Hudson to guard and you have a solid team

Kidd
Hudson
Wally
KG
Kandi

with Kurt, Hoiberg and Hassle coming off the bench. You put lots of shooters around Kidd and KG and have nice guys that are tough on D coming off the bench in Kurt and Trenton Hassle

that would be GREAT for minny, not so good for nj. if nj trades kidd, then they f'ed up by getting vince. losing all those picks, and having a team built around two max players in vince and rj with nobody running the team. they're not moving to brooklyn so vince is useless.
gunsnewing
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2/16/2005  2:28 PM
NJ won't trade Kidd not with the way he's playing and if they did trade him it would be for more than Minn has to offer. Plus I don't think Minn would trade this year's #1 pick since its their first draft pick in a while.
TMS
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2/16/2005  2:44 PM
that would be a horrible move if you're the Nets because in all likelihood you're going to let Spree walk in the offseason since RJ is on his way back...that leaves you w/an aging Sam Cassell & a mediocre 1st round pick for 1 of the best PG's in the game...i would never make that trade unless the Nets are absolutely sure that Kidd's knee will lead to his quick decline in the next season, which it doesn't appear to be the case judging from how he's been playing of late.
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fishmike
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2/16/2005  2:56 PM
its about money. Didnt they just trade one of the best young PFs in the game for mediocre draft picks? They traded Kittles for a second rounder. What it gets them is out from under Kidd's contract.

While I dont think you overvalue Kidd's worth per say I think you overvalue the market for him.

Maybe the Blazers could offer something better where NJ gets Telfair back. Maybe the Mavs... Ive seen much worse happen and if your the Nets why carry a huge payroll next year when your a lame duck team in that arena?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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2/16/2005  3:21 PM
at this point, I would take an ending contract for KT, just get him out of the equation.
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fishmike
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2/16/2005  3:24 PM
Briggs... you think Ervin Johnson and Eddie Griffin for KT would work?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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2/16/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:

its about money. Didnt they just trade one of the best young PFs in the game for mediocre draft picks? They traded Kittles for a second rounder. What it gets them is out from under Kidd's contract.

While I dont think you overvalue Kidd's worth per say I think you overvalue the market for him.

Maybe the Blazers could offer something better where NJ gets Telfair back. Maybe the Mavs... Ive seen much worse happen and if your the Nets why carry a huge payroll next year when your a lame duck team in that arena?

true, they did trade K-Mart for picks, but that was so that they'd have the money to sign RJ to his extension...if they trade their best player in Kidd i'd have to assume they'd want someone who would be there for the long haul & not as a salary dump...the proposed trades w/DAL or POR at least nets them some good, young players, which does not happen here in the MIN deal.

[Edited by - TMS on 02/16/2005 15:26:42]
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fishmike
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2/16/2005  3:36 PM
TMS.. I'm saying the deal makes sense for NJ. They have been retarded for a year. Only that I could see them pulling the trigger on something that dumb.

The rumors will fly this weekend. Thats when KVH got traded last year. The GMs literally just pal around and talk scenarios.

I dont want to dump KT for nada. He's not a dominating player but he actually continues to expand his game every year. He's a hard worker and brings some good things to the table. We dont really need those things but it doesnt mean just because I need $10 to buy the toy I *really* want that I'm willing to give you my last $5 just because
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MikeFromNY
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2/16/2005  3:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

at this point, I would take an ending contract for KT, just get him out of the equation.

Considering the Knicks do not plan on getting under the cap...that wouldn't make much sense. You'd be giving away an asset for absolutely no good reason.


Either trade him for an equal contract and a draft pick or two...or package him with something someone would want and get someone good.
fishmike
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2/16/2005  3:50 PM
meant to say it DOESNT make sense for NJ

Mike.. I agree w/ you. Its also too early to plan on drafting a paticular guy. If you get a pick or even young guy back like Eddie Griffin you can justify it but just dumping him doesnt make sense. What if Rudy Gay comes out and the Knicks draft 3rd??? Still want Sheldon Williams? Maybe the Knicks are able to sign Steven Hunter or take a risk and trade for Kwame Brown. All of the sudden KT is a good fit at PF.

I'm ALL for moving KT in any borderline deal but he's NO Tim Thomas. He plays hard, he's improved his game, he doesnt take nights off, he's shown he's committed to improving, even if it means not fighting with the refs. He doesnt get in foul trouble anymore and makes smart plays.

YES YES YES I would rather see Sweetney play the rest of the year but we arent so deep or have such resources that I would move Kurt for nothing but a contract coming off the books

Give me Patterson and Outlaw
give me Ervin Johnson and Eddie Griffin
give me Spoon and the Rockets #1 (please release Spoon when it happens)
give me Adonal Foyal and Pietrus

SOMETHING
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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2/16/2005  4:35 PM
Posted by MikeFromNY:
Posted by BRIGGS:

at this point, I would take an ending contract for KT, just get him out of the equation.

Considering the Knicks do not plan on getting under the cap...that wouldn't make much sense. You'd be giving away an asset for absolutely no good reason.


Either trade him for an equal contract and a draft pick or two...or package him with something someone would want and get someone good.
Yeah, I might trade Kurt for a contract that ends next year, which will have good trade value throughout the entire offseason and next season, but not for a contract that ends this year. (You couldn't then trade that player except I think for in a 1 for 1 deal.)
crzymdups
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2/16/2005  5:18 PM
Why would Minnesota downgrade from Eddie Griffin to KT? Griffin has been DOMINANT at times this season for the Wolves. KT for Ervin J and a pick? Maybe.

I'd love to trade Kurt this weekend, Ruben Patterson might be a good target.
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nyk4ever
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2/16/2005  6:04 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Why would Minnesota downgrade from Eddie Griffin to KT? Griffin has been DOMINANT at times this season for the Wolves. KT for Ervin J and a pick? Maybe.

I'd love to trade Kurt this weekend, Ruben Patterson might be a good target.

Why do you want Ruben Patterson? I think he's a pretty good player but with Crawford, Ariza and Thomas manning the 2/3 I dont think there is any need for him, especially since its become painfully obvious that Allan Houston is not going to retire anytime soon. When we trade Kurt it should be a package deal where we trade him with either Penny or TT in the summer. My thought is NOT to salary dump him, when we trade him, I want something back (second round pick, a young player who is underachieving, anything.)

Right now, I really want to see how serious Washington is about trading Kwame Brown, they are making some noise in the East and could use Kurts veteran leadership. What do you guys think about a Kurt Thomas for Kwame/Michael Ruffin trade... it works under the CBA.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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man, if nj was in win now mode, they could've had kurt instead
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