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short list of who you would trade our #1 for...
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Bonn1997
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2/14/2005  1:44 PM
Posted by franco12:

after the Camby/Nene trade, I'd rather the Knicks not go trading their first round picks.
Two rules I'd keep in mind when trading lottery picks. First, don't trade a lottery pick for a badly injured player. Second, you have to evalute who's likely to be the better player. If we're picking around 7, then MOST players in the past picked in that area turn out to be worse than Elton Brand, Zach Randolph, Ron Artest. I'd rather get good young talented players who are likely to be better than the guy we're drafting.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02/14/2005 13:44:21]
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Allanfan20
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2/14/2005  2:00 PM
It's pretty ironic you say that, b/c Artest was drafted #15, and Randolph pretty late too. You just can't tell b/c there will always be gems late, and there will always be busts early, and there will always be guys living up to expectations.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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2/14/2005  2:08 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

It's pretty ironic you say that, b/c Artest was drafted #15, and Randolph pretty late too. You just can't tell b/c there will always be gems late, and there will always be busts early, and there will always be guys living up to expectations.
I said MOST, not all. Of course there are exceptions. The odds are AGAINST you, though, if you're drafting at @ 7 and hoping to get someone better than Artest, Brand, or Randolph.
BRIGGS
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2/14/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Sheldon doesnt have the best hands and I remember you saying the same thing about Sweetney. Its easier to go out and buy tough guys, its tougher to find ones with game changing athleticism.

Sheldon Williams, Wayne Simien... they all remind me of David West. There is ZERO way to predict if these guys will make it or not on this level. Its one thing to get 20/10 being 6'8 - 6'9 playing at full speed 100% in the NCAA. Its another in the NBA. These are nice guys to get in the 20's when they fall. Sure, I would much rather have one of them then Bruno and Baker at the end of the bench, but there's a reason guy like that fall to the 20s and guys like Wilcox who have half the game at the same time are lottery picks

Those guys dont create matchup problems at this level, plain and simple. The one guy who is an anomaly in that regard is Zach.

I would rather draft a guy like Warrick who's going to give you that toughness anyway, but be a nightmare for other teams to guard.


the fastest way for the Knicks to get better is defense and rebounding. When you have a team that can really play defense and rebound the ball, you can be in ANY game.

Out of the guys you mentioned, none of them are similar. I would love to think we could get pick 1 and all debate if off, but it is a longshot.

I don't know if Mike Sweetney is the answer at starting PF. There is no reason why he cant be pegged as a high quality back up who can score points, better if he can get into some quailty shape.
But if I can find strong, physical athletes who can defend, but also have high quality offensive skills and legit size, that will be the fastest way for us to get better.

If I had my pickums, I would love to say trade down and draft Shelden Williams and Joey Graham and then buy a pick and promise it to Louis Williams. I can't stress it enough that these two are chisled power athletes who are at the top at their positions in terms of defense. These arent Sweetney's, these are chisled powerful, intimidating athletes.

My concept is simply to go back to a defense and rebounding concept with strong athletic powerful athletes, but unlike Knick teams of the 90's spritz it with skill players like a Louis Williams, A Jamal Crawford, so that you can have the ability to score as well.

Listen everyone here is screaming for a C and the bottom line is that is may not be available to us. I don't know if trading for players is a path the Knicks should take with the pick. The more I think about it, the more Im against it. Id rather take my chances building a team in a particular concept while dropping my payroll down so I can atleast see the end of the road in terms of FA. I'd like to get a C, but this may be a 2-3 year process of being bad and I believe within that time we will get 1.
RIP Crushalot😞
Rich
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2/14/2005  2:51 PM
Wilcox?
RonRon
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2/14/2005  4:34 PM
the fastest way for the Knicks to get better is defense and rebounding. When you have a team that can really play defense and rebound the ball, you can be in ANY game.

Out of the guys you mentioned, none of them are similar. I would love to think we could get pick 1 and all debate if off, but it is a longshot.

I don't know if Mike Sweetney is the answer at starting PF. There is no reason why he cant be pegged as a high quality back up who can score points, better if he can get into some quailty shape.
But if I can find strong, physical athletes who can defend, but also have high quality offensive skills and legit size, that will be the fastest way for us to get better.

If I had my pickums, I would love to say trade down and draft Shelden Williams and Joey Graham and then buy a pick and promise it to Louis Williams. I can't stress it enough that these two are chisled power athletes who are at the top at their positions in terms of defense. These arent Sweetney's, these are chisled powerful, intimidating athletes.

My concept is simply to go back to a defense and rebounding concept with strong athletic powerful athletes, but unlike Knick teams of the 90's spritz it with skill players like a Louis Williams, A Jamal Crawford, so that you can have the ability to score as well.

Listen everyone here is screaming for a C and the bottom line is that is may not be available to us. I don't know if trading for players is a path the Knicks should take with the pick. The more I think about it, the more Im against it. Id rather take my chances building a team in a particular concept while dropping my payroll down so I can atleast see the end of the road in terms of FA. I'd like to get a C, but this may be a 2-3 year process of being bad and I believe within that time we will get 1.


totally agree, very well said...

dont we have to give up our pick this year to Utah from the marbary trade to pheonix? we can keep it if its a low pick but im not sure how low...i think top 5?
fishmike
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2/14/2005  4:43 PM
I just think the thing w/ guys like that is they are easier to get. I agree defense and rebounding are solid goals, I'm just disagreeing with the easiest way to get there.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MikeFromNY
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2/14/2005  4:46 PM
Posted by RonRon:


dont we have to give up our pick this year to Utah from the marbary trade to pheonix? we can keep it if its a low pick but im not sure how low...i think top 5?

Not even close.


I think it may actually be as protected as top 29 or something this year. I know the protection diminishes each year until 2010, in which we'd have to give it up regarldless of what pick it'd be.

[Edited by - MikeFromNY on 02/14/2005 16:47:43]
gunsnewing
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2/14/2005  6:41 PM
if Bogut is gone then I would love to trade our pick for Nene!! if its possible that is. True centers like Nene are extremely hard to find.
Allanfan20
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2/15/2005  2:28 PM
I don't trust nene at this point. He can be good, but he's always either on the bench or on the IR. I'd be willing to trade the pick for Dalembert, however. Top 3 protected of course.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 02/15/2005 14:28:58]
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
crzymdups
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2/15/2005  2:33 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I don't trust nene at this point. He can be good, but he's always either on the bench or on the IR. I'd be willing to trade the pick for Dalembert, however. Top 3 protected of course.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 02/15/2005 14:28:58]

We can't trade the pick until draft day (you can't trade picks in back to back years). What we can do, is draft someone for another team, then ship his rights in a trade. This is what happened with the Nene/Dyess trade.
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fishmike
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2/15/2005  2:35 PM
Phili wants to resign Sam anyhow.

FYI: the 2nd #1 we traded in the MArbury deal is conditional. Its lottery protected through 2010. If we are in the lottery all of that time we dont owe the pick.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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short list of who you would trade our #1 for...
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