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short list of who you would trade our #1 for...
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fishmike
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2/14/2005  10:25 AM
now or this offseason. If we have top 3 (Bogut) protection my list starts with:

Al Harrington
Nene
Ron Artest

I left off the Elton Brand's in the favor of being realistic.

Nene would give the Knicks a great finisher with big hands to play with the solid backcourt we have.

Harrington gives you the do-all foward that plays will in the open floor or halfcourt.

Artest is Artest.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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TMS
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2/14/2005  10:34 AM
Harrington & Nene are good young talents but i don't see them as ever becoming franchise level players, & Artest is a headcase...a #5-#13 pick i would trade for any of them though...would have to think hard about a #3 pick depending on who's out there.

[Edited by - TMS on 02/14/2005 11:13:39]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/14/2005  10:37 AM
Posted by fishmike:

now or this offseason. If we have top 3 (Bogut) protection my list starts with:

Al Harrington
Nene
Ron Artest

I left off the Elton Brand's in the favor of being realistic.

Nene would give the Knicks a great finisher with big hands to play with the solid backcourt we have.

Harrington gives you the do-all foward that plays will in the open floor or halfcourt.

Artest is Artest.
If we have like the 7th lottery pick, I'd give up Sweetney, the player we pick, and TT's expiring contract for Brand. The Clippers have a nice young supporting cast and would have Wilcox and Sweetney to play PF and 2 lottery picks. The Clipps have always been cheapskates and I'm sure they'd rather pay Sweetney and Wilcox combined one-fourth the total that their paying Brand.

We'd still have the MLE and about $30 mil in expiring contracts to use in smaller trades.
fishmike
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2/14/2005  10:39 AM
thats what I meant by top 3 protection... Obviously we will be in the lottery, I'm saying I would trade the pick for those guys if the pick was top 3 protected. Harrington is 24, Nene 22 and Artest 25.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/14/2005  10:41 AM
not realistic... sorry. If you want me to say that we have a 1% chance of getting Brand to make you happy I will. I dont even know if that trade works if we have the #1 pick.

Good to see we have $30mm to use in "smaller trades"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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2/14/2005  10:43 AM
1) Artest (not sure how realistic this is, so.....)

1a) Zach Randolph (trust me, he'll be available for Sweets and a top 6 pick)

2) Nene (if he's not moved for Redd, he'll be available)

3) Tyson Chandler (can chicago pay all their rooks?)

That's pretty much it. And I would not make these trades if Taft, Bogut or Boone were available. I also would really like to add Hakim Warrick, but I would accept acquiring size instead of leaping athleticism. Though, something tells me Warrick will be a Marion-type all-star and a perfect fit for Marbury. I wouldn't be so quick to recreate Layden's mistakes again, this is a very good draft.
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fishmike
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2/14/2005  10:47 AM
I'm not looking to dump the pick by any means... just considering all the options. Taft doesnt look better than Wilcox to me and I have seen him coast too much. Boone I dont think will come out but thats a possibility. Bogut is the prize (thus the top 3 protection)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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2/14/2005  10:48 AM
Posted by fishmike:

not realistic... sorry. If you want me to say that we have a 1% chance of getting Brand to make you happy I will. I dont even know if that trade works if we have the #1 pick.

Good to see we have $30mm to use in "smaller trades"
so you think the Clippers are happy spending $70 mil on Brand just to make the lottery every year? Do you think any other team will take back his max contract and give up TWO mid lottery picks (Sweetney plus the player we draft) for him? This move gives them two mid lottery picked players and a nice expiring contract, and puts them WAY under the cap in 2006

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02/14/2005 10:53:29]
TMS
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2/14/2005  10:50 AM
Posted by fishmike:

thats what I meant by top 3 protection... Obviously we will be in the lottery, I'm saying I would trade the pick for those guys if the pick was top 3 protected. Harrington is 24, Nene 22 and Artest 25.

i'm not all that familiar w/the prospects available this year, but if we can't get Bogut, Taft or some other stud prospect, i would give up the pick for any of those 3 (i'd have big reservations about Artest though even though he's clearly the best of the 3)

[Edited by - TMS on 02/14/2005 11:14:37]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/14/2005  10:52 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

1) Artest (not sure how realistic this is, so.....)

1a) Zach Randolph (trust me, he'll be available for Sweets and a top 6 pick)

2) Nene (if he's not moved for Redd, he'll be available)

3) Tyson Chandler (can chicago pay all their rooks?)

That's pretty much it. And I would not make these trades if Taft, Bogut or Boone were available. I also would really like to add Hakim Warrick, but I would accept acquiring size instead of leaping athleticism. Though, something tells me Warrick will be a Marion-type all-star and a perfect fit for Marbury. I wouldn't be so quick to recreate Layden's mistakes again, this is a very good draft.
I'd definitely consider Zach like you said. I'm not sure about giving up a mid lottery pick for Nene or Chandler, though.
MikeFromNY
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2/14/2005  10:55 AM
I still really don't know too much about the guys in this year's draft.

I do really like Artest, but I think this team needs a center. If a good one is available at our spot in the draft, I'd have to think really hard about making a trade for someone else.

If a few of the big guys in this year's draft emerge as big time prospects (other than Bogut, who's obviously already risen to the top of that list), and we have a shot at one of them, I might rather just keep the pick. Especially considering that a trade for any of these guys would almost certainly include Ariza/Sweetney in addition to the pick.

Basically, I can't really decide until the draft actually rolls around and I have more knowledge about who's available.

[Edited by - MikeFromNY on 02/14/2005 11:06:14]
djsunyc
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2/14/2005  11:03 AM
i'd pretty much give up anything for artest.

no to zach randolph. he makes MAX money. i don't care about his age and offensive #'s b/c he doesn't play defense and is not an athletic player. why pay max for a zach when you can pay <$2 mil for sweetney who i think, ultimately will be the same type of offensive player.

harrington is intriguing and is a definite upgrade over anything we have. i'm a little worried that he's not producing as well as he should in atlanta but maybe he's just a 3rd fiddle at the end of the day. (which is ok)
BRIGGS
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2/14/2005  11:23 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'd pretty much give up anything for artest.

no to zach randolph. he makes MAX money. i don't care about his age and offensive #'s b/c he doesn't play defense and is not an athletic player. why pay max for a zach when you can pay <$2 mil for sweetney who i think, ultimately will be the same type of offensive player.

harrington is intriguing and is a definite upgrade over anything we have. i'm a little worried that he's not producing as well as he should in atlanta but maybe he's just a 3rd fiddle at the end of the day. (which is ok)


No, I would never take Harrington over Zach. Zach is alredy a proven 20-10 player, and while he is no defensive stalworth, he's no chump either. Hes a much better defender then lets say rahim, and he's a tough player, a tough person, a litle bit of a punk, but thats OK. No choir boys needed.

there is a big difference between Zach and Sweetney, but i dont need to get into that.

I looked around the league and Randolph would be just about the only guy I would be willing to move a 6-7 pick that is plausibly available.
Harrington is a 3, right now that is not a priority.

I could be in the camp of trading down for 2 1s and a 2,because I think there will be some gems drafted a tad later than 6 and I think that bringing in multiple young assets might trump player 6 for us. Then again if the draft falls a certain way, and everyone and their mothers come out, 6 could be very attractive.
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crzymdups
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2/14/2005  11:37 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:


I looked around the league and Randolph would be just about the only guy I would be willing to move a 6-7 pick that is plausibly available.
Harrington is a 3, right now that is not a priority.

I could be in the camp of trading down for 2 1s and a 2,because I think there will be some gems drafted a tad later than 6 and I think that bringing in multiple young assets might trump player 6 for us. Then again if the draft falls a certain way, and everyone and their mothers come out, 6 could be very attractive.

I would consider this trade as well. It helped the Nets immeasurably to make a trade like this with Houston: Eddie Griffin for RJ, Collins and another pick.

Guys like LaMarcus Aldridge, possibly Warrick, Charlie Villanueva and Torin Frances are going to slip to the mid first round and be impact picks if they do in fact come out. Who actually has multiple first rounders? The Nets do, who else?
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fishmike
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2/14/2005  11:43 AM
what I love about Harrington is he plays both ends of the floor. He's a 6'9 240 pound superior athlete. He can play both forward spots and has a nice mean streak to his game.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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2/14/2005  11:48 AM
Why should we trade our #1? As much as I would love to have Nene in a Knicks uniform, I also realize that Kiki would never trade this young dude. The Knicks can really rebuild from cheap. All they have to do is give chances to big man like Jamal Sampson whom can be as good if not better than Nene, and draft good players with our #1 pick 2nd round pick to improve this squad.....What Isiah really need to do is try to accumulate as many picks as possible by trading dead weights like Nazr and Kurt
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BRIGGS
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2/14/2005  12:15 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:


I looked around the league and Randolph would be just about the only guy I would be willing to move a 6-7 pick that is plausibly available.
Harrington is a 3, right now that is not a priority.

I could be in the camp of trading down for 2 1s and a 2,because I think there will be some gems drafted a tad later than 6 and I think that bringing in multiple young assets might trump player 6 for us. Then again if the draft falls a certain way, and everyone and their mothers come out, 6 could be very attractive.

I would consider this trade as well. It helped the Nets immeasurably to make a trade like this with Houston: Eddie Griffin for RJ, Collins and another pick.

Guys like LaMarcus Aldridge, possibly Warrick, Charlie Villanueva and Torin Frances are going to slip to the mid first round and be impact picks if they do in fact come out. Who actually has multiple first rounders? The Nets do, who else?




I think what I would be looking at now is a package of Shelden Williams and Louis Williams. I might even be willing to use my lottery pick on S Williams and see if I can trade for the latter.
I think the NUMBER 1 need for us is toughness and defense in the post with physical strength. Louis Williams is a player who I believe will be a spectauclar explosive nBA player at some point and it would be worth it to grab him and wait on his development.

Shelden is a modern day Oakley. He is not the athlete like Okafor, but somewhere in between Oak and OakLEY. He is physically very strong with long arms and his post moves keep getting better and better. Tremendous character. you know, when you start thinking about guys you would want, you may steer towards the *sexier* type prospects, but Williams, to me represents a lot of what we dont have. the fastest way for us to get better as a team is DEFENSE and REBOUNDING, and he fully represents both of those.
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MikeFromNY
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2/14/2005  12:31 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Who actually has multiple first rounders? The Nets do, who else?

I was going to ask the same thing.
fishmike
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2/14/2005  12:53 PM
Sheldon doesnt have the best hands and I remember you saying the same thing about Sweetney. Its easier to go out and buy tough guys, its tougher to find ones with game changing athleticism.

Sheldon Williams, Wayne Simien... they all remind me of David West. There is ZERO way to predict if these guys will make it or not on this level. Its one thing to get 20/10 being 6'8 - 6'9 playing at full speed 100% in the NCAA. Its another in the NBA. These are nice guys to get in the 20's when they fall. Sure, I would much rather have one of them then Bruno and Baker at the end of the bench, but there's a reason guy like that fall to the 20s and guys like Wilcox who have half the game at the same time are lottery picks

Those guys dont create matchup problems at this level, plain and simple. The one guy who is an anomaly in that regard is Zach.

I would rather draft a guy like Warrick who's going to give you that toughness anyway, but be a nightmare for other teams to guard.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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2/14/2005  1:39 PM
after the Camby/Nene trade, I'd rather the Knicks not go trading their first round picks.
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