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to win or not to win, that is the question
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BRIGGS
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2/9/2005  11:40 AM
lets be real, at position 6 in the lottery, we have a legit chance to get into the top pick, and at worst we have a nice leverage position @6.

What helps Isiah and the Knicks more? Possibly one of positions 1-2-3-6 oR position 14-15? Im sorry but playoffs at 36 wins or something and 4-1 out first round ISNT going to help this club. We need leverage,we could use some luck, but we would have that leverage no matter what and we need that.
If I am Isiah, I want that leverage no questions asked +++ he has a leeway to lose at any pace this year with no repercussions whatsoever.
i mean if we did indeed walk out with Bogut, it could change the organization for 15 years and someone at this point would rather try a feeble attempt and playing Miami?
RIP Crushalot😞
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TMS
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2/9/2005  12:04 PM
we can still go for the lottery this year & make a trade in the offseason to get someone like CWebb imo...i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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2/9/2005  12:06 PM
the NBA is funny... you cant control how a team plays together. Its hard to predict or scout why the Pistons went from 32-50 to 50-32 the next year with a rookie coach and Cliff Robinson, or why the Sonic are doing what they are with Danny Fortson being the only real change.

What you can do is control the direction of your team. Its fair to say we have seen what Nazr and KT can offer and it peaked out at 16-13 with Crawford and Marbury playing at a very high level.

Moving those guys for Rose and Ervin Johnson and picks should be #1 priority. If its a disaster you come away with a possible franchise player in the draft. If those guys rally, play their butts off an win the divsion then thats ok also... you still in a position to fill your bench with younger talent and or use picks and expiring deals for other players or take Euro guys that cant come over right away.

You have to ask your players to play hard and win every game. Its a business after all, but you can tell fans that your taking one step back to take two steps closer to a title. We say it happen with the Rangers last year, the Knicks are in position to do some of the same.

The nice thing is with a couple impact rookies along w/ Marbury, Crawford and possibly a MLE FA like Swift, Walker, etc the Knick could VERY quickly become a good team in the East.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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2/9/2005  12:19 PM
Good post, Fish. I agree that it's important to maintain a professional atmosphere. Briggs, as you've said, the average margain of victory in the NBA is SIX POINTS. Teams have a very similair talent level give or take a superstar. Fortunes can change from year to year without making huge moves. The key is to maintain a professional attitude and a good environment. When environments turn toxic, it's hard to ever turn it around, even with talent.

That said, there's some good talent in this draft, granted I want an impact, top 5 player, but there a bunch of very capable, legit bigs:

1) Boone (maybe not coming out, but we'll see if Uconn wins)
2) Bogut (maybe going too high for us)
3) Taft (may slip)
4) Warrick (should be in range)
5) Villanueva (should be in range)
6) LaMarcus Aldridge (may be coming out, should be in range)
7) Sean Williams
8) Torin Frances
9) Wayne Simien
10) Petro
11) Channing Frye

My point being, we don't need to Tank, we need to maintain a positive atmosphere. That will beget winning and team play. Even without tanking, it's possible to get an impact player. Look what Boston got with Al Jefferson at the 15th pick.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02/09/2005 12:21:23]
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BRIGGS
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2/9/2005  1:10 PM
the only way I would be interested in Chris Webber is if they were willing to take back Allan Houston, which is not happening. You cant rely on Chris Webber like you cant rely on H2O and I dont think that is a way to run a business. Sacremento is into him for the contract and if he does indeed collapse, they have many capable players to keep a high style of play up. We took a chance with Mcdyess and it didnt work, I think we need to move on from that.

Jalen Rose? Is he the answer here? Really I don't think that is the avenue either. You have to take on significant money for him and they haev already said they won't take on huge contracts for players past their prime. I would say Jalen is probably close to his prime, but those extra years is what Dolan is talking about.



If you want to sell me on a package for Zach Randolph with Ruben Patterson, Im down for that because Zach is young and Patterson is a young 29[because of limited PT over a number of years], and Id be willing to eat a bad contract like andersen's to take them back-and throw in Sweetney, but this couldnt take place until after the season.

I think at position 1-2-3-6, we have a whole different avenue of ways to improve the team both short and long term. At position 6 we have a legit chance at the lottery, so the only name I would throw out is Bogut until we actually LOSE the lottery. AND i wouldnt stop in my pursuit if I had a chance to move up, because at position 6, you do have that leverage.


Im not opposed to trading Sweetney and ending contracts if I get someone like Zach--but thats the only road I would try to go down.

Bad business? Bad business is taking on EXCESSIVE payroll from someone like Rose and were talking 32MM$just to TRY to get into this years playoff.

I wouldnt try to lose, but first off I would claim sampson and put him on the 12 man roster adn i would limit everyones playing time going to a 12 man rotation. Everyone plays Sundov brewer Sampson Norris etc... everyone plays and cut down Marburys minutes to 30 to keep him from getting hurt. And if we lose, we lose. thats not tanking it.
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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2/9/2005  1:27 PM
briggs, i think fish meant malik rose.
crzymdups
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2/9/2005  1:44 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=1987251

Sampson is a BEAST. We absolutely NEED to take a look at him. Come back from Spain, Zeke!
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fishmike
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2/9/2005  2:16 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

briggs, i think fish meant malik rose.
Oh yea... I just got that. Yea, I meant Malik. I would consider swapping Jalen for TT if I got something coming back in that deal. Maybe TT/Nazr for Jalen/Aruojo. Its a money deal for Tor and we get a good young bruiser back
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/9/2005  2:30 PM
this year will be a true shame if we dont see Sweetney get some stretch of time where he gets 30 minutes every game. At least give me 8-12 starts. Move KT to center while it happens for all I care.

I would like to use Nazr in a S&T for Swift this offseason, but I could move him for Ervin Johnson and Sotas #1 (with only top 3 protection) I would do it in a NY minute.

To me you HAVE to get a look at Sweetney for extended minutes. If he gives you 14/9/2 over 10 games it has to change how you approach the draft. Then your more likely to pass on a guy like Simien and look for help at the 3 or backup 1/2.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
to win or not to win, that is the question

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