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The Kurt Thomas question
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Bippity10
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2/8/2005  1:31 PM
In games in which Sweetney has played in over 30 minutes he is averaging:

15.3 pts, 8.5 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.75 blocks, 60% FGA

I am definitely not a member of the I hate Kurt fan club. I love KT. I think he's better than Mike right now. But if we are truly rebuilding.................
I just hope that people will like me
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fishmike
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2/8/2005  1:41 PM
Its not just that... its team need. KT plays the pick and roll well, good position rebounder, gets that jumper off nicely, etc.

But Sweetney camps under the basket and 90% of his action is right under the hoop. We desperatly need that. At this point the odd man out to me should be Nazr, because his play is the poorest. Sweetney is a good passer and seems to make good decisions with the ball.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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2/8/2005  1:58 PM
Sadly, Nazr is better than Kurt. Kurt is awful defensively. He's the most overrated player in the league, when it comes to defense. Just look at his PER difference and see what his opponent's PER is.

Sweetney should be starting. Sweetney and Nazr are better than Kurt right now.

Kurt can hit a jumper. That's the only thing he excels at.
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Bippity10
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2/8/2005  1:59 PM
I agree. Plus......I'm okay with rebuilding. I'm okay with trying to win. I'm okay with rebuilding on the fly. But commit to one or the other. KT is a good player in the wrong situation. If we are rebuilding than KT is the perfect tool to help us do so. If we are not rebuilding than someone else on that frontline needs to go. But which is it? This is the first time IT has really ticked me off. If we were in fact rebuilding why not trade KT before last year's trade deadline when he was playing well, his contract was running out and his value was at an all-time high. Why? Because we were playing to win and not rebuilding. And now with the classic NY patience we change gears again. Commit to a plan and see it through and NY will win. Instead we continue to change plans on the fly. Hire and fire coach's on a fly. When will we learn.

We need to change the dynamic. We've been losing for three/four years with him as a starter. Maybe just maybe a trade can help us in other areas.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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2/8/2005  2:05 PM
nazr is not better than kurt.

kurt is a better defender than nazr (whatever that's worth) AND a better offensive player.

kurt is a better complement to sweetney than nazr b/c he plays on the perimeter while sweetney is down low.

the problem with sweetney is that he can't keep the stupid fouls down to be on the court for more than 30 mins. that's ok, he'll learn. herb is committed to giving him major minutes but he's not helping his cause with the fouls.
Solace
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2/8/2005  2:09 PM
Not a Nazr fan at all, but Nazr is playing decent for a center, while Kurt is below-average for a PF. I know they have different standards, but let's get real. Whatever... I don't really care which is better. Nazr is more valuable to the team and in trade than Kurt is. That's the real factor. Regardless, Kurt is not helping the team and his lack of any inside game in the past three or four years is killing us. He used to play inside, but now he's just an undersized PF/C with a jump shot, who is an average rebounder and shotblocker. The guy he defends also winds up getting lots of scores and being a big influence in the game. Nothing spectacular about Kurt. He's worn out his welcome, in NY for about a year and a half. Allan Houston wore out his welcome a while ago, too. Trade these guys (if possible) or bench their asses. Either way, I'm tired of seeing them play. Sweetney needs to be in there. Bippity is right, there needs to be a plan that we stick to. If we're losing, lose with youth, at least.
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Bippity10
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2/8/2005  2:11 PM
That is an issue, but we are also what 3-16 with KT in the line-up so I say give him a shot. I'm glad Herb is committing to it.

I think the issue in NY is that everyone coach's and GM's(?) to keep their jobs, not to win games. GM's undermine coach's so that when it all falls apart it will be the coach's fault. GM's are afraid to commit to a plan because as soon as that plan goes awry in the first two weeks we will ask to fire him. If a coach plays a young guy and he loses two straight we will call for his head. In this type of atmosphere we can only win if we have a big time coach, or a ready made championship team. Anything else just doesn't work. JVG was undermined after he lost Patrick. JVG never got the players he wanted. Chaney didn't get the players he wanted. Wilkens wasn't allowed to hire his own coaching staff. You can't win under these circumstances.

We need to commit to a plan and bring in a coach that is respected enough so that everyone will go with the plan. And then finally the blame for losses and the credit for wins can go back to where it belongs.......the players.
I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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2/8/2005  2:20 PM
Ive been crying for two of these three scenarios to happen:

KT for Malik Rose and SA's 2 late #1's (they have Pho's pick as well as their own)
Nazr for Ervin Johnson and Minn's #1
Nazr and Houston's #2 + $3mm for Stro Swift in a S&T this offseason

Your not mailing it in by any means... heck, we are 10 games under w/ Nazr and KT playing every game this year. You still have Sweetney, JYD, TT, Baker, Bruno and EJ. Not great but we are a < .400 team.

You do those things and you have 4 picks to add young players, even if the are Euro guys that cant come over for year.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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2/8/2005  2:37 PM
I'm on the same page with you. For four years we've been playing under .500 ball. On a winning team, next to a post up player, I love KT. On this team he doesn't make sense. Last year was time to make a move. This year is really time to make a move. Next year will be really, really time to make a move. Why wait. Give Sweetney a shot. If he flops than it gives your more info come draft time. But if you don't play him and a PF is on the board come draft time how do you make your decision?

It's about saving jobs and selling tickets. We know we take a step back if we play young guys. We know guys like Sweetney don't sell tickets. So we have to stick with vets hoping to squeeze a 35 win season out. It's so frustrating.

I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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2/8/2005  2:48 PM
holy crap! you have a kid? and his initials are TT? You want him to be in porn or something. Thats wild... congrats man.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/8/2005  2:50 PM
man.. I wanted to trade KT during the Spree/Houston year and people would always come back with "but who will play center" or "KT's 14/9 is good production for a center"

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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2/8/2005  2:54 PM
Yes, my son was born. Not sure how the government let it happen, but he's here now. He's still at the hospital with his mother and will be home in a couple weeks due to some minor complications(nothing serious). I normally leave work early and go to the hospital and just stare at him for 3 or 4 hours. It's surreal.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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2/8/2005  2:56 PM
Just got that TT thing. Not that I've ever watched porn. because that's disgusting.

On a side note: I do remember you calling for the KT trade back then. And I do remember the who will play center questions. Man, we've been posting for a long time.
I just hope that people will like me
MaTT4281
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2/8/2005  2:58 PM
Hey Bip, wanted to congratulate you on your son when I read the post at MSG.
Bring him up to Zeke, we need a good backup point.
fishmike
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2/8/2005  3:07 PM
man.. thats awesome stuff. I love kids.. my daughter is 4 and my son is 18 months. Surreal is a good word. Its such a blast. I dont care if I can afford it, I want like 8 kids.

My son is some pitcher reincarnated. I have to do some research and find out who died the day he was born. He spits (for fun and to demonstrate his displeasure). He grabs himself from the minute the diaper is off until it goes back on and he's got this lightning arm. We cant go out to eat because he pelts people at neighboring tables with his fries. I have found people dont find that as cute as I do.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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2/8/2005  3:17 PM
Man, I can't wait until my son is throwing fries at people. So far we are still in the lay on your back and shake uncontrollably stage. But he is good at that. There's a baby in the crib next to him that shakes too, but he's notas good at it as my son. Is there any sport that could use that skill? Is it that much different than what Vin Baker does when he's on the court?
I just hope that people will like me
Allanfan20
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2/8/2005  3:30 PM
Shaking uncontrollably is a good sign. He'll probably be in the chess club b/c of that.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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2/8/2005  3:42 PM
shaking is good... infants are cool (when they are yours)

Enjoy every minute.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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2/8/2005  3:56 PM
Allanfan: I'll make sure he gets into the club that you will be teaching.
I just hope that people will like me
Bonn1997
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2/8/2005  4:04 PM
Posted by Solace:

Not a Nazr fan at all, but Nazr is playing decent for a center, while Kurt is below-average for a PF. I know they have different standards, but let's get real. Whatever... I don't really care which is better. Nazr is more valuable to the team and in trade than Kurt is. That's the real factor. Regardless, Kurt is not helping the team and his lack of any inside game in the past three or four years is killing us. He used to play inside, but now he's just an undersized PF/C with a jump shot, who is an average rebounder and shotblocker. The guy he defends also winds up getting lots of scores and being a big influence in the game. Nothing spectacular about Kurt. He's worn out his welcome, in NY for about a year and a half. Allan Houston wore out his welcome a while ago, too. Trade these guys (if possible) or bench their asses. Either way, I'm tired of seeing them play. Sweetney needs to be in there. Bippity is right, there needs to be a plan that we stick to. If we're losing, lose with youth, at least.
I agree 100% on this one. Kurt's defense is awful. In addition to the stats you listed, PFs and Cs are shooting about 55% against him. He's okay on help defense, but his man to man defense is worse than Sweetney's, JYD's, or Nazy's. His feet are too slow to guard any NBA level PF or C.
The Kurt Thomas question

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