Posted by s3231:

Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way, all we need is Bogut to be good. if we somehow, by the love of God get him, you guys will be shocked and we will be a 50 win team with just fractional moves. Id love to get Zach if Portland is selling, but we need more draft picks.

Yes, we would need more draft picks but what if you do trade Nazr to Minnesota for Johnson and that first rounder but its still not enough along with the other players for Portland to give up Zach? I would like more draft picks just like you do, however, I'm not willing to trade a decent asset in Nazr for a pick that could very well be at 20 or over if I don't even know if Zach can be had. Nazr is a pretty good young center with a decent contract who has more value than the 17th pick in this year's draft. I'm not saying to get a top 10 pick for Nazr, but I do think he can help land us a pretty talented big man like Kwame or Stromile Swift (if the MLE is not enough for him which could very well be the case).

Plus, I don't understand why you are asking me if I want to come back with the same team. You use the worst case scenario when defending your argument yet, to make your original argument you use the best case scenario in which we get the best pick in the draft, so I'll do the same. What if we do get the 11th pick and you trade Nazr for pick 17 and Kurt for pick 29? What if you cannot move up in the draft that much because teams don't like the depth of the draft and aren't willing to trade down? Then you waste Nazr Mohammed for nothing and our team would suck even more next season.

[Edited by - s3231 on 02/03/2005 18:50:24]

Basically, I am outlining a pattern of operations which I would choose to go. I am asserting that I do not believe we can win with the current frontcourt[thats quite obvious] and that I'm willing to put us in better positions..ie lose as many games as possible second half the year and pick up draft picks if I can to as a conduit for the ending contracts for any type of potential deal down the line.

When i put names out there, any name, Im trying to be positive that they could be a realistic option i.e we have a real chance to get a number 1 pick if we are 5-6 in the pecking order--we have a better cHANCe to go after a guy like zach randolph with the extra pick + young player[usually what it takes to satisfy a team]

does it mean we will get any player NO.

the only thing we can somewhat control right now is admitting that our frontline is not good enough and attempting to execute trades for the future at the deadline and quite frankly to lose as much as possible. we can only put ourselves in the best positions possible, the names mean nothing right now, its only a model

and to add to that, if it comes to a situation where we are even worse next year than this year, so be it, so be it until we have franchise type talent in the frontcourt

if you want a stable winning team for 10+ years that has a chance to go to the finals and win, you NEED franchise talent in the frontcourt, there is NO other way around it unless we were drafting a lebron james.

Yuck. Zach gives up about as many points as he scores. I'd take him for free, but I wouldn't give up much for him.

yea... Zach may need some maturity but hell, so do I. He's an elite frontcourt player in this league, bottom line. He's forced a lot of shots this year... his FG% is down but 20/10 at 23 is what it is

Posted by TMS:

just what has happened w/Zach Randolph that he's all of a sudden turned from someone the Knicks could only dream about acquiring just a year ago to a player that some of you wouldn't even give up much to get? he's still putting up close to 20 & 10 a game this year & he's still all of 23 years old.

TMS, there is no guarantee that anything will occur. No team is in position to give up a big time big man in this league unless they are forced or they have an age/risk/cash thing going--like BIG Z


I think most guys cannot be had. I think Zach has taken a step back this year in play at times, no change in character and they just gave him 12+mm a year for 7 years. Personally I think they will keep him because they got rid of Woods and a little more age might stablize him.
I don't know, I don't know if any ending contract will have an effect. Like I said, I threw a name out there as a plausible model, but it's about as likely as us getting pick1.

I think we have to get what we can for kT and Nazr and lose games, but I do not think they will even do that. Personally i will not be surprised to see much change because It is counting on a team that wants to unload a great player in a cap dump. Believe it or not, I would not be surprised to see this club with an MLE a pick +an LLE-Baker Sundov Brewer. thats probably the most likely scenario.

i wish it wasnt, but if I can What if to the upside, I can also what if to the downside.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TMS:

just what has happened w/Zach Randolph that he's all of a sudden turned from someone the Knicks could only dream about acquiring just a year ago to a player that some of you wouldn't even give up much to get? he's still putting up close to 20 & 10 a game this year & he's still all of 23 years old.

TMS, there is no guarantee that anything will occur. No team is in position to give up a big time big man in this league unless they are forced or they have an age/risk/cash thing going--like BIG Z


I think most guys cannot be had. I think Zach has taken a step back this year in play at times, no change in character and they just gave him 12+mm a year for 7 years. Personally I think they will keep him because they got rid of Woods and a little more age might stablize him.
I don't know, I don't know if any ending contract will have an effect. Like I said, I threw a name out there as a plausible model, but it's about as likely as us getting pick1.

I think we have to get what we can for kT and Nazr and lose games, but I do not think they will even do that. Personally i will not be surprised to see much change because It is counting on a team that wants to unload a great player in a cap dump. Believe it or not, I would not be surprised to see this club with an MLE a pick +an LLE-Baker Sundov Brewer. thats probably the most likely scenario.

i wish it wasnt, but if I can What if to the upside, I can also what if to the downside.

i hear what you're saying, but i still think it would take a helluva lot more than just Nazr, Sweetney & a pick to get Zach Randolph...if you were offering Crawford & Sweetney then i can see POR maybe going for that (assuming the salaries match up w/other filler contracts)