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Roster Synopsis; What Should The Knicks Do?
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BigSm00th
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2/1/2005  2:41 AM
Looking at the Knicks, I think it is easy to get discouraged and point fingers at easy scapegoats like Isiah and Stephon. Let's not.

Isiah inherited a bad sitution, salary wise. There's no way he could've waited it out and "rebuilt" in a traditional sense. Trading TT for KVH is a wash, both guys stink and are overpaid. Both have long contracts. Too bad Sprewell isn't here and his contract would be expiring.

He had to re-sign KT because he still had value. Now, he must trade him. KT serves no purpose on this team. He cannot jump, he doesn't go to the line. Fantastic, he runs a great pick and roll with Marbury. I want my power forward to get rebounds, play good defense, and get putbacks, not take 18' jumpers. The KT extension will only be wise if Isiah can pawn KT off for younger players.

Houston stinks, his knee's are shot. He's done. Let's not include him in any plans. Hopefully he retires.

The Crawford trade was a coup, in my opinion. Of course perimeter players are going to look poor on defense when they have two big men playing behind them who's combined vertical is probably less than a foot. Crawford is instant offense, he's 24, and they got JYD in the deal, a perfect 6th or 7th man. They gave up four crappy players to get a young player like Crawford. He and Marbury form a great backcourt. Putting the right players behind them would improve their defense and improve this team.

Nazr Mohammed is putting up good numbers and has a good contract. He should be traded immediately to a contender for younger pieces.

Mike Sweetney is very up and down. He needs to get in shape and prove he can stay out of foul trouble. If he can, I think he has potential to grow. If not, I think he'll be a great backup PF.

Let Tim Thomas and Penny Hardaway expire, don't trade them for garbage like Chris Webber or Jalen Rose. Just let them go away.

The Knicks stinking is, in my opinion, fine. They've been hurt by injuries, they don't have the right mix of guys, and their coaching has been disastrous. Let them stink for a year and get a lottery pick. Take Andrew Bogut. I watched the BYU/Utah game today, he's a beast. 7 feet tall who has a back to the basket game, can pass the rock, plays with attitude, played sick today, has a decent outside game, physical, developed body, and only 20 years old. Stink enough to get a top 7 pick and take this guy. Make him your power forward, Sweetney can back him up.

Use the MLE on a guy like Stephen Hunter. Don't use the entire thing, but give him enough to get him away from Phoenix and ready to play big minutes in New York. He blocks shots, he's a realistic option (vs. Dalembert or Curry, who will get BIG contracts). Now, with a frontcourt of Ariza, Bogut, and Hunter you are making progress. Bogut and Hunter can block shots, Ariza is athletic and working on his defense.

Throw Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Bogut, and Hunter out there next year, have Sweetney and JYD coming off the bench. Everybody else should be new faces. 2nd round pick I like Nate Robinson (great change of pace PG) or D'Or Fisher (great shotblocker on West Virginia).

That should be the Isiah Plan. Wait out or weed out the junk, keep the young talent, and make smart moves. Did anyone really expect anything significant from the Knicks this year?
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raven
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2/1/2005  3:46 AM
No, but when we saw the roster and we kind of thought things could work better than that.

in fact, I never thought TT would regress that way and always thought houston would play, at least a bit.

realistically (spelling ?) speaking, i don't care if the knicks loose a lot this year. loosing for loosing, i want them to loose and get a high draft pick.

It's either a playoff berth or a high draft pick. Being caught in between is a non choice.

Our guards will get better defensively when, you're right, our paint won't be an highway.

I don't know if we'll suck enough to get a shot at bogut as there are some serious competition in tht field (atlanta, NO..).

but i like the hunter signing, though i only saw him play once.

nice post, no whinning, as usual bigsmooth.
Nalod
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2/1/2005  9:56 AM
On paper,we were well balanced with centers, back up centers, Vets, a few rooks, etc. on paper is looked nice, and we knew it would be a while before we could move any of those pieces.

It was thought that the team with a training camp togehter would build some chemistry and play for the highly respected lenny, and winning 46-48 games is not a stretch. Either Firs place in the silly divison or a low seed in playoffs.

That was a resonable expectation. Injuries, especially Allans non-return, and TT's injuries, and mainly menatal state of distraction has really hurt the team. IT happens, and when it does, you get a nice draft pick!
djsunyc
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2/1/2005  10:06 AM
Posted by Nalod:

On paper,we were well balanced with centers, back up centers, Vets, a few rooks, etc. on paper is looked nice, and we knew it would be a while before we could move any of those pieces.

It was thought that the team with a training camp togehter would build some chemistry and play for the highly respected lenny, and winning 46-48 games is not a stretch. Either Firs place in the silly divison or a low seed in playoffs.

That was a resonable expectation. Injuries, especially Allans non-return, and TT's injuries, and mainly menatal state of distraction has really hurt the team. IT happens, and when it does, you get a nice draft pick!

very true. what we're seeing is a collapse. no way around it. 3 games over .500 then go 2-13 in a month. that is a collapse.

the only roster moves that can be done to immediately try to figure things out is to:

1. move steph to SG and craw to PG
2. keep starting ariza
3. try to trade kurt and start sweetney
4. find some rookies teams gave up on and put them on the roster
5. cut bruno

that's it. other than that, we need to ride out the storm and wait till the draft.
nykdunk
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2/1/2005  10:11 AM
Isiah inherited a bad sitution, salary wise. There's no way he could've waited it out and "rebuilt" in a traditional sense.

Dolan has supported Isiah 110% and he agreed to let Sather tear down the Rangers. Given that, there might have been a possibility if Isiah had felt it was necessary.
Trading TT for KVH is a wash, both guys stink and are overpaid. Both have long contracts. Too bad Sprewell isn't here and his contract would be expiring.

KVH has been injured most of the season, yet has still impacted games far more than TT has. That aspect of the trade has been an unmitigated disaster. Spree's selfish and immature nature has come back to life in Minnesota. We have enough SGs on this team. (or at least we did)

He had to re-sign KT because he still had value. Now, he must trade him. KT serves no purpose on this team. He cannot jump, he doesn't go to the line. Fantastic, he runs a great pick and roll with Marbury. I want my power forward to get rebounds, play good defense, and get putbacks, not take 18' jumpers. The KT extension will only be wise if Isiah can pawn KT off for younger players.

Not sure about that right now. At the time it looked good, but his contract is not very appealing to potential interested parties. He's a role player, yet the last year of his contract has him get paid $8m. And that's 3 years away. To trade him it looks like we'd have to accept less. Something I'm sure dido would accept. Not sure Isiah would though. It'd be admitting a mistake.
Houston stinks, his knee's are shot. He's done. Let's not include him in any plans. Hopefully he retires.

At this point anything he gives is a bonus. So much for all the 3 guard set hype.
The Crawford trade was a coup, in my opinion. Of course perimeter players are going to look poor on defense when they have two big men playing behind them who's combined vertical is probably less than a foot. Crawford is instant offense, he's 24, and they got JYD in the deal, a perfect 6th or 7th man. They gave up four crappy players to get a young player like Crawford. He and Marbury form a great backcourt. Putting the right players behind them would improve their defense and improve this team.

#1: We only gave up 3 crappy players. Frank Williams was not a crappy player. He is defensively better than Marbs and Craw, and would have solved our glaring weakness at the backup PG position.
#2: Marbury and Craw make a nice offensive backcourt, but they have got to be one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league. With no good defensive players watching their back, they're getting killed everynight.
Nazr Mohammed is putting up good numbers and has a good contract. He should be traded immediately to a contender for younger pieces.

A nice asset but not sure what he'd bring back. He isn't really anything more than a very good role player. Any deal in which he can bring back a legitimate 7 footer with potential needs to be done.
Mike Sweetney is very up and down. He needs to get in shape and prove he can stay out of foul trouble. If he can, I think he has potential to grow. If not, I think he'll be a great backup PF.

His one drawback I have always maintained is his lack of height. He isn't athletic enough to make up for it. A loss of weight might help in that regard, but it might not help him turn into what we are looking for. At this point if he can be packaged with Nazy to get a big man, then it just needs to be done.
Let Tim Thomas and Penny Hardaway expire, don't trade them for garbage like Chris Webber or Jalen Rose. Just let them go away.

A big man is a bigman, and if either of these two contracts can be used to get one, it just has to be done, because there is no moving forward until we have one.
...
That should be the Isiah Plan. Wait out or weed out the junk, keep the young talent, and make smart moves. Did anyone really expect anything significant from the Knicks this year?

We need bigs at any cost. If we can get something resembling a good 5 and 4s, other things will fall into place. We can then let contracts expire, build through the draft, maybe eventually get under the cap etc. But the longer we wait, the longer it will take for us to succeed.

Hunter is nice, and guys like him need to be overpaid for in today's NBA. The full MLE seems a bit much, but I'm sure other teams might offer it, so we ought to too. It'd be great to land Bogut, but we'd have to be very lucky to do so. On the roster, the only untouchable I see is Ariza. The plan should be to spare no cost in getting young bigs with potential, while trying to add younger players in other positions with smaller contracts. That will ensure this team has a future.

[Edited by - nykdunk on 02/01/2005 10:14:29]
tkf
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2/1/2005  10:21 AM
I dissagree that marbury and crawford get killed every night, if you looked at the game last night, the clippers guards could not stop either one of them, not at all..., the two combined are averaging around 40ppg, they are doing a lot more killing than getting killed. It is hard some nights to stop dribble penetration, but when you don't you have to do much better than what KT and nazr provides..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
franco12
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2/1/2005  10:54 AM
Of course perimeter players are going to look poor on defense when they have two big men playing behind them who's combined vertical is probably less than a foot.

I'm sorry- but you can't blame Crawford and Marbury's poor effort on defense on KT and Nazr.

also- we need talent on this team- front court needs it- but look what LeBron has down with a team that talent wise was probably worse than us.


[Edited by - franco12 on 02/01/2005 10:55:28]
TMS
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2/1/2005  11:07 AM
basically, our frontcourt & overall team defense sucks...that's the problem...when you have 2 weak perimeter defenders in Marbury & Crawford & no shotblockers playing behind them or boxing out on the glass, you have a problem...& it doesn't help when you have the "Best PG in the NBA" committing 4 consecutive T/O's in consecutive possessions in the closing minutes when your team is trying to mount a comeback.

this team just doesn't know how to close out games.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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2/1/2005  11:10 AM
just list it in order

an entire new starting frontline, Ariza is very encouraging Solid back ups at 1-2-3-5

no more signing buddies[i.e sundov brewer and sob cases Baker, and we should've just let Weatherspoon walk instead of swapping for Norris]

beg to win the lottery


what i am scared about right now, is that I think that we are not going to focus on getting atleast a reasonable deal for kT or NAZR and that they think that Nazr is an answer at C, after getting mauled by Chris Kaman. We need a REAL C or the second coming of amare stoudemire which should happen in 20 years. I think they will stay with this unit becuase they have never strayed from the fact THEY believe a healthy squad will atleast make the playoffs. The playoffs to the Knicks is much more important than any tanking job, because it deals with increasing ticket $$$$$ for next year and building a stronger season ticket base. But just like the Rangers, they will be wrong wrong wrong.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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2/1/2005  11:24 AM
what makes you think they are happy w/ Nazr or KT?

The bottom line is we *still* get killed in the paint every night. We never win the points in the paint. We always get our shots blocked more and last night we got mauled on the offensive glass.

Keep trying to get young guys that match a type. Young and athletic. I think you can turn Nazr into Stro Swift on a S&T. I think you could get a late #1(s) for KT for someone like Malik Rose and I think you use the MLE for a guy like Steven Hunter. Winning the lottery would be a wonderfull thing, but you can still get a solid player around 8-11.

It cant happen all at once.

I would do nothing w/ TT/Penny this offseason unless a great opportunity comes up. Otherwise just keep them until next Feb when you KNOW there will be 4-5 teams just looking to cut costs.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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2/1/2005  1:37 PM
Every time i hear isiah talk, I hear him praising Nazr as a core component of this team. Big men are at a premium, its much easier to say we'll get this guy, we'll get that guy, when in reality, we have very little chance to get any of them.

Maybe a Zach Ranolph believe it or not, thats possible because I dont think that portalnd loves him and his huge contract, but IF and thats a bIG IF, we could do ANYTHINg there and I doubt it, it would cost us another 100mm$ Sweetney and a number 1 pick, and thats a maybe.

but if isiah is talking about ending contracts, zach is the guy who probably is the most attainable.but i still doubt it.


RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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2/1/2005  2:01 PM
Every time i hear isiah talk, I hear him praising Nazr as a core component of this team.
of course.. going into this offseason wouldnt you consider him one of our best assets? A fairly athletic hustle guy that gives you a double double if he gets some decent minutes? Good work ethic, always plays hard...

I dont know about Zach, that seems like a disaster to me, and Portland should be much better then they are. He can certainly put the ball in the basket, but he NEVER passes and he's not exactly the most likeable guy.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Roster Synopsis; What Should The Knicks Do?

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