[ IMAGES: Images OFF turn on | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

what would the best GM in the NBA do for the Knicks?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
fishmike
Posts: 53198
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/31/2005  11:25 AM
Just wondering... I was thinking about how Isles loves Jerry West and how West could find a way to engineer a champion here and how Isiah is always doing "spin control" for any move that hasnt worked out.

I'm looking at West's moves in Memphis and the best thing he did was hire Hubie Brown.

He drafted Drew Gooden over Amare Stoudemire
He traded down w/ Bos to get Troy Bell (later waived) and Dahntay Jones
He resigned Battier, Gasol and Jake Tsakilidis (already there when he took office)

His big player additions were Bonzi Wells (when Port was begging anyone to take him and it cost him a #1)
and Brian Cardinal (someone PLEASE explain this to me)
He also traded Drew Gooden for Mike Miller. Pretty much a lateral trade.

Thats in 3 years now... I'm sorry but if Jerry West was my GM for 3 years I would have somewhat higher expectations but thats just me.

http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/jerry_west.htm

Look... this league isnt charitable. Any GM that announces his plan for his team is just asking every other GM to take advantage of him. Since Isiah is all about self promotion and spin control and deflecting critisism I'm just wondering what people's expectations are... seriously.

I see a lot of people taking the best year a franchise has had in the last 5 offseasons and say "THATS WHAT WE NEED." The Bulls had a great offseason, but thats like 1 in 6. People were talking about how brilliant Kiki was, until they started to play.

Jerry West, the most accomplished GM in the NBA has been w/ Memphis for 3 years and the best players he's added are Mike Miller (had a #4 in Drew Gooden to work with), Bonzi Wells and Brian Cardinal. My god.. people here cry about "other team's cast-offs and losers."

Hmmmm....

People say "rebuild" but want immediate gratification w/ a new GM. Since Isiah sucks so bad (to some) whats the measuring stick being used to gauge his suckiness?

I know the losing is painfull to watch... I do. It hurts me too. But why do people expect things to happen here that dont happen anywhere else?

This will no doubt further label me an Isiah apologist but I could care less. I'm just glad the last guy is gone and we have someone with the opposite personality.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
AUTOADVERT
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/31/2005  11:31 AM
wow, i would have expected at least 2 NBA championships in Memphis by now...i mean, it's Jerry West!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
1/31/2005  11:32 AM
i don't think there's been a situation like this where the team is so far over the cap for so many years when a gm took over. i think a realistic expectation was after 3 years, this team should have evolved into a perennial 2nd round playoff team or better. and i'm only saying that b/c "blowing it up" and playing 5 rookies wasn't happening here (that would take longer).

i guess you look at a team like dallas that keeps shuffling big contracts and keeps playing well. a draft day deal for dirk propelled them to another level while still having big contracts on the books. that's what we need - some sort of impact draft pick or draft day deal that'll give us a player that can make a bigtime impact. layden thought that was dice. now let's see what isiah can do.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01/31/2005 11:39:03]
diderotn
Posts: 25657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/15/2004
Member: #650
USA
1/31/2005  11:32 AM
All I want is to see Kurt Thomas gone.....That is all. Once Isiah pulls a deal to make that happen, he will be the greatest GM ever....
The true Knickabocker..........
franco12
Posts: 33271
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
1/31/2005  11:36 AM
The one move I would fault IT for is hiring Lenny Wilkens- I didn't really like it at the time- it probably would have made sense to finish the year out with Herb last year and to then have had a shot at Phil this past summer.

But, its hard to blame him for hiring HOF coach.
fishmike
Posts: 53198
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/31/2005  11:40 AM
I agree w/ Franco. While I didnt think Lenny was the problem and I still dont think he was the problem. The argument I heard was when you can ice you hire fire and vice versa. Isiah hired a guy just like he fired, laid back, cool, offensive minded and it didnt really change anything.

That being said it starts and stops with the roster.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
1/31/2005  11:42 AM
fish,mike - regardless of who agrees with your viewpoints, your work is always t incisive, creative and most of all, no bitter aftertaste.

Rock on til the break of dawn.

If you were listed on paid site I'd be a loyal subscriber.



once a knick always a knick
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
1/31/2005  11:45 AM
fish, this was an excellent post, if you don't mind, I would like to paste this on another site, I will leave your name out of it of course, but this is so right to the point, and so true..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
1/31/2005  11:46 AM
Just read a good article, and while it contained a back handed compliment to Zeke, still had some interesting points.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/013105/c0131carpweb.html

There were a few things we knew for sure when Isiah Thomas came dimple-smiling onto the scene as the boss of the Knicks 13 months ago.

We knew it would be years before he'd be able to dig out from the salary-cap mountain piled on top of the organization, and we knew it would be more likely that he could trade Howard Eisley for LeBron James than trade Allan Houston for anybody.

Given those hefty shackles provided by the previous Knicks administration, Thomas has done a decent enough job. Today's team, minus Eisley and Charlie Ward, Antonio McDyess and Othello Harrington, Keith Van Horn and Shandon Anderson, et al., is better. Today's team is easier on the eyes, even if it loses games with mind-blowing brain locks, even if it tries to play the way the Phoenix Suns play with only a fraction of the offensive skill the Suns have.

Thomas has a long way to go before he even gets the Knicks back to respectability — never mind contention. The guys he brought in are athletic, even if defensively challenged and fundamentally inept. His prized acquisition, the self-anointed best point guard in the NBA, Stephon Marbury, is terribly overrated. He came in as "the best point guard the Knicks have had since Walt Frazier" with trumpeting that made it sound as if he and Clyde could be in the same discussion, when in fact he is only the best point guard the Knicks have had since Mark Jackson.

Thomas won't get cap relief for a few more years, whether Houston retires or not.

But Thomas has no right whatsoever to
... Here he compares him to Sather for implying H20 should call it quits ...

But looking at it, it was hopeless and we do have a future and cap relief in site. I'd rather keep atleast trying and not be too concerned with signing a big name free agent (hit or miss) and just keep building with our draft, using the cap relief to keep our kids and sign a dalembart type defender or bosh type menace.
all kool aid all the time.
fishmike
Posts: 53198
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/31/2005  11:51 AM
its just Knick therapy Mr.Earl... we all need a little. We have been in an abusive relationship for several years now and the anger and resentment has a variety of manifestations. The problem is the healing takes time baby... :)

TFK.. copy away, but say its from your pal fishmike. No worries. Its only a matter of time before playa copies our stuff
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
ItaliaKnick
Posts: 20066
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/20/2004
Member: #716
1/31/2005  11:52 AM
Excellent points. People talk about the how Isiah has made this mistake and that mistake. The man was not dealing from a position of strength; if you have crap you have to take some crap back to put it another way, to get rid of the Eisleys, Weatherspoons you have to either take back bad contracts or give up picks or both. To me the only deal you can question is the Van Horn deal and even that is justified by Nazr.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
1/31/2005  12:20 PM
Posted by fishmike:

its just Knick therapy Mr.Earl... we all need a little. We have been in an abusive relationship for several years now and the anger and resentment has a variety of manifestations. The problem is the healing takes time baby... :)

TFK.. copy away, but say its from your pal fishmike. No worries. Its only a matter of time before playa copies our stuff
hahah.. thanks man..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
MX25
Posts: 20591
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/20/2004
Member: #555
USA
1/31/2005  3:52 PM
West tok Grizz from 20 win teams into a 50 game winner and playoffs and now a 43+ win team and playoffs.
fishmike
Posts: 53198
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/31/2005  4:09 PM
he did? How did he do that? Seriously... how?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorknewyork
Posts: 29869
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
1/31/2005  4:17 PM
Given all the flexability and young prospects and already a 7'0 allstar big man in place when he got there. He hasn't really meet the expectations attached to his name. When he got there I was like oh man he is gonna pull off some crazy move for a superstar to team up with Gasol. I wonder if he pusued TMAC or Vince at all???

Just thinking about it Amare-Gasol-Swift would have been crazy. Plus Wright. With Battier at forward they would have been deep up front.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fishmike
Posts: 53198
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/31/2005  4:26 PM
thats my point. He hired a great teaching coach and waited for Gasol to blossum. Getting Mike Miller was nice but he had the #4 pick, then Drew Gooden to do that.

Yes... imagine a team built around a frontline of Gasol and Amare. Add Jason Williams, Posey, Battier as starters and that team is lights out.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/31/2005  4:40 PM
personally i don't think the Grizzlies win an NBA title even if you added Amare Stoudamire to their present roster...how much closer are they to an NBA championship than a team like, say, the Nuggets, who by the way were the flavor of the month before the season began when everyone in the media & a few posters here for that matter were lauding Kiki Vandeweghe as the second coming of Jerry West...they no doing so well either, amigo.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
Posts: 53198
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/31/2005  4:47 PM
no, but they do have some VERY nice assets to move if they wanted to. Having Nene/Carmello/Skita in rookie contracts as well as Camby/Kmart/Dre Miller in veteran deals are some very nice assets. Despite this season Kiki but that franchise in great position moving forward.

West did very little but resign guys that were already there. Getting Hubie was good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/31/2005  4:59 PM
i'm just basically reiterating your point that even the best so-called GM's in the league don't have a down pat formula to win championships...they rely on luck of picks & signings working out just like every other GM in the league...it's morons like Scott Layden who sign guys like Shandon Anderson & Howard Eisley to crazy deals that define the word inept...but i can't blame Isiah for taking a chance on a guy like Marbury or Jamal Crawford...at least you know these guys have bigtime talent & will bring excitement to the garden...now if you want to criticize Isiah for signing KT to a longterm contract when his true value was in his expiring contract last year, then i am totally with you (no you fish, i'm addressing Isiah's detractors here)...but i also give him credit for taking Ariza in the 2nd round...we now have some tradeable assets in place, so i'm giving him the benefit of 1 more offseason to see if he can pull some more moves to get this team turned in the right direction.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
Posts: 33271
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
1/31/2005  5:17 PM
regardless of the wins, this team this year is more talented than the team that started last season.

He's upgraded the talent, he's gotten younger.

True, he took on the Penny & JYD, but those were not ugly contracts- imagine if the erobb contract had been included and then his toe deformity became an issue for us?

I think the safe route to building a title contender would have been to let deals expire and trade vets where possible for picks and try to amass talent in the draft- its safe because if a pick doesn't work out, you just chalk it up to the draft being a crap shoot.
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
what would the best GM in the NBA do for the Knicks?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy