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Bosh's January
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Bonn1997
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1/30/2005  11:55 PM
20 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 2.1 BPG, 9+ FTA per game, leading the Raptors to an 8-5 record. And he's only 20! His improved play has coincided with the departure of Vince
AUTOADVERT
tkf
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1/31/2005  12:50 AM
how about improved play coinciding with him just playing better?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  9:03 AM
Have you watched the Raptors at all?? They run far more plays for him now that Vince is gone. He's getting opportunities he didn't used to get
rvhoss
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1/31/2005  9:13 AM
last night, against the suns, he may have been the only player playing even when they were down by almost 30.

I was salivating and wondering if someone has/will post a possible trade scenario...but the more I watched, the more I was convinced the raptors will not be parting with him and will be parting with their TT and Penny (marshall and rose)
all kool aid all the time.
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  9:21 AM
They love Bosh in Toronto. He's not tradeable for anyone except guys like Lebron, Duncan, and Garnett. The time we could have and should have gotten him was on draft night. Layden should have traded up our #9 pick and our expiring contracts (we had plenty) for Bosh or Wade and bad contracts. With Layden running the team, Bosh would still have been on the IR, though, because he wouldn't allow him to take minutes away from Mutombo and Doleac.
TMS
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1/31/2005  9:43 AM
get real, no one was trading us their top 5 pick for a #9 & an expiring contract...you can't possibly blame Layden for that one.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  1:33 PM
What? Teams move up and down in the draft all the time. If Layden had been willing to take back an extra $80 mil in long-term contracts (about half of the Marbury trade), I'm sure teams would listen. Or you could throw in a lottery protected future pick too.
MX25
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1/31/2005  3:40 PM
Yea teams move up and down like clippers moved down because they already had there PF and wanted a PG. Raptors NEEDED Bosh and wanted him. Can't blame Layden for that. We'll see what Isiah does if he has the 8 pick and he wants a guy at the 3rd or 4th pick. If the #3 or #4 team has a need at C or PF they won't be trading the pick for the #8 pick and expiring contract. Cause they wouldn't be getting the guy they want and could be shut out off getting a real need.
MX25
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1/31/2005  3:42 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

20 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 2.1 BPG, 9+ FTA per game, leading the Raptors to an 8-5 record. And he's only 20! His improved play has coincided with the departure of Vince

Yea the trade has been good for Bosh and Vince.
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  4:27 PM
Posted by MX25:
Posted by Bonn1997:

20 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 2.1 BPG, 9+ FTA per game, leading the Raptors to an 8-5 record. And he's only 20! His improved play has coincided with the departure of Vince

Yea the trade has been good for Bosh and Vince.
Ah Vince's team will probably be in the draft lottery *again*
TMS
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1/31/2005  4:33 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

What? Teams move up and down in the draft all the time. If Layden had been willing to take back an extra $80 mil in long-term contracts (about half of the Marbury trade), I'm sure teams would listen. Or you could throw in a lottery protected future pick too.

not when you have Lebron, Darko (who was extremely highly touted), Carmelo, Bosh & Wade available in the draft they don't...plus, i do remember reading rumors at the time that Layden was seeking to trade up, but couldn't find any takers...he couldn't get a deal done but not for lack of trying if you believe the stories in the papers before the 2003 draft...now i hate Layden as much as anyone, but i can't blame him for not being able to trade up in the draft that year.

btw, i'm being technical but from my calculations the Knicks took back less that your $160 million dollar estimate in longterm contracts in the Marbury trade:

Knick gave up:
Eisley (~$19 million)
Ward (~$6 million)
McDyess (~$5 million)
Lampe (~$3 million)
future conditional 1st round pick (~$10 million for rookie contract)
rights to Milos ($0 dollar value because he wasn't coming over)
(total = ~$43 million)

Knicks received:
Marbury (~$105 million)
Penny (~$44 million)
(total = ~$149 million)

the difference taken on was ~$106 million, half of which is ~$53 mil...are you getting that figure after adding in your estimated projection of luxury tax figures here? has that been established yet or is it still up in the air as to how much luxury tax will be charged over the life of the deals involved here? i ask because i had heard it wasn't yet set in stone whether or not a luxury tax would be charged in the coming seasons.

[Edited by - TMS on 01/31/2005 17:01:55]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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1/31/2005  4:43 PM
its impossible to move up significantly unless your giving up bigtime talent. It was well known the Blazers were offering the kitchen sink to move up to the top 5-6 to get Amare Stoudemire and they couldnt get anything done.

Your best bet is to trade a following #1 or multiple #1s for a high pick to a team with cap space in a certain range. If you have $13mm in cap space and the #5 pick it makes sense to move that pick for future ones because that rookie contract counts against your cap space. $14mm and $10mm is the difference between Duncan/Jermain Oneil and Rasheed Wallace and Lamaar Odom. Big difference.

Its tough and you cant count on it.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  6:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

its impossible to move up significantly unless your giving up bigtime talent. It was well known the Blazers were offering the kitchen sink to move up to the top 5-6 to get Amare Stoudemire and they couldnt get anything done.
Well the best pick the Blazers could have offered in return would have been theirs, which was probably around 20. It's much harder to move up from 20 to 5 than from 9 to 5.
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  6:14 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

They love Bosh in Toronto. He's not tradeable for anyone except guys like Lebron, Duncan, and Garnett. The time we could have and should have gotten him was on draft night.
Well I guess we also could have gotten Bosh all those times that Layden offered Kurt Thomas for him
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1700962

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01/31/2005 18:15:59]
simrud
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1/31/2005  6:58 PM
Bosh is just doing what he is supposed to, maybe to early. But he is there franchise player, and will keep them better then the horrible Knicks untill we actually get a real franchise player of our own.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  11:32 PM
Posted by simrud:

Bosh is just doing what he is supposed to, maybe to early. But he is there franchise player, and will keep them better then the horrible Knicks untill we actually get a real franchise player of our own.
keep them better than the Knicks? huh? Have you looked at the standings even once this season?
simrud
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2/1/2005  12:57 AM
In the words of Nalod, you idiotic snit, we are basically tied with them right now, and there future is far brighter then ours.

Why don't come back here and tell me how they are like .5 games behind us and how you are so smart to point that out.

Like that even f@ckin matters. There only bad deal is Rose, and they have a Garentt like stud in Bosh.

You are gonna come here and snit your way in and tell me how we are above them by like half a game in the "standings", of a pathetic division, what is that even supposed to tell me you snit.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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2/1/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by simrud:

In the words of Nalod, you idiotic snit, we are basically tied with them right now, and there future is far brighter then ours.

Why don't come back here and tell me how they are like .5 games behind us and how you are so smart to point that out.

Like that even f@ckin matters. There only bad deal is Rose, and they have a Garentt like stud in Bosh.

You are gonna come here and snit your way in and tell me how we are above them by like half a game in the "standings", of a pathetic division, what is that even supposed to tell me you snit.
take a chill pill dude. losing your temper that easily can't be good for your health
MX25
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2/1/2005  6:11 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by MX25:
Posted by Bonn1997:

20 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 2.1 BPG, 9+ FTA per game, leading the Raptors to an 8-5 record. And he's only 20! His improved play has coincided with the departure of Vince

Yea the trade has been good for Bosh and Vince.
Ah Vince's team will probably be in the draft lottery *again*

Vince's team will be in lottery? lol. Once Nets pass knicks in standings what will be your excuse for isiah? Since everyone knows the knicks have the far more talented players but Nets are right with them. What's the excuse?

Are you gonna say Knicks are hurt? Cause Nets have lost more guys to injury than Knicks have.
Bonn1997
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2/1/2005  6:16 PM
Posted by MX25:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by MX25:
Posted by Bonn1997:

20 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 2.1 BPG, 9+ FTA per game, leading the Raptors to an 8-5 record. And he's only 20! His improved play has coincided with the departure of Vince

Yea the trade has been good for Bosh and Vince.
Ah Vince's team will probably be in the draft lottery *again*

Vince's team will be in lottery? lol. Once Nets pass knicks in standings what will be your excuse for isiah? Since everyone knows the knicks have the far more talented players but Nets are right with them. What's the excuse?

Are you gonna say Knicks are hurt? Cause Nets have lost more guys to injury than Knicks have.
No excuse. Many rebuilding teams are in the lottery. It's nothing to be ashamed of if you keep getting talented young players to build with. I don't know how this came up about the Knicks anyway when were were talking about Vince and the Nets. Maybe you can try sticking to one topic
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