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Knicks rebuilding... just wont admit it
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fishmike
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1/26/2005  6:24 PM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-sphow264126059jan26,0,7237819.column?coll=ny-knicks-bigpix

Rebuild without letting it fall down

Jan 26, 2005Isiah Thomas, like all great point guards, has a keen sense of the psychological ebb and flow of any game he competes in. He's aware of the games within the game that he has to play as president of the reeling Knicks. And so, with injured players foundering around him, the Hall of Fame coach he sacked just a few days gone, and the Suns, the second-best team in the league, descending on the Garden last night with their vapor-trail fast break, Thomas didn't dare mention the 'R' word: rebuilding.

In the New York sports world, even uttering the "R" word is considered sure box-office poison.

"Yeah, well, if you've been in a hole like we've been in the hole, then how else are you going to get out?" Thomas said last night with a rueful laugh, still never using the word until 15 more minutes into the conversation.

Rebuilding is what the Knicks are doing under Thomas, all right, even if he just nips around the edges of the idea in his public comments.

Oh sure, Thomas preferred to call his plan a process of "building," as in: "What I've tried to do here is position ourselves right in the middle. We've tried to be competitive, and yet build at the same time. But build with younger players."

Just don't call it rebuilding?

This is a sophisticated game of semantics that Thomas is playing. He is preaching optimism while being resigned that he has to buy some time. Since coming here a little more than a year ago, he quickly earned a reputation as a wheeler-dealer who fearlessly swung trades. But lately, he's been working public perception just as hard as he's been working the phones.

Thomas volunteered that the Knicks team he inherited had a payroll approaching $100 million, and this year's version is hovering at about $93 million, but the six players currently playing the most minutes earn only about $33 million.

"And [nearly all of] them are young guys that I brought in," Thomas said. "That other $60 million of payroll, that team isn't out on the floor for us now."

But don't call what the Knicks are doing rebuilding?

For anyone who remembers Thomas' reckless, often maniacally driven, playing career, hearing of him saying a few weeks back that the Knicks were a .500 team was astonishing. By saying that, he might have risked giving the Knicks permission, almost an excuse, to think of themselves as no better than that, even though they play in the lousy Eastern Conference.

But Thomas said he wasn't concerned about the comment backfiring. Why?

"Because people who have been players and coaches in this league never say 'only .500,' " Thomas quickly answered. "Because people who have been players and coaches in this league know how hard it is to be 'only .500' in this league. It's a dogfight every night.

"I think when healthy, we're about a .500 team. And I thought it was important to say that so we wouldn't get overwhelmed with unrealistic expectations. Some people out there were saying the Knicks can win 50 games if everything goes right - well, no, no, no, no."

The conventional wisdom in New York - that no sports team here dares to go into a wholesale rebuilding mode, they just retool - is still true of the Knicks under Thomas.

But only to a point. You'll never see them with five rookies on their roster, like that red-hot team in the little hamlet of Chicago kept this season. But Thomas has been working hard to sell what he's doing with the Knicks like a no-look pass. He throws his gaze one way and reminds everyone that the Knicks' problems are the unavoidable pain caused by past regimes that handcuffed the franchise with astronomical contracts.

He repeats this mantra: "Small-market teams have the luxury of rebuilding. Big-market teams do not." He mentions that the Knicks still sell out the Garden.

But when you look the other way at what Thomas is actually doing, or saying, he has been very busy reminding Knicks followers if they can just hold tight, the Knicks will have a first-round draft choice this summer. By then, they'll also have creaky players with contracts totaling $40 million that expire after next season, contracts that Thomas claims will be of great use as bargaining chips in trades, even if the players attached to those deals are creaky Penny Hardaway or journeyman Tim Thomas.

So, to recap: Thomas is moving veteran players? Looking forward to draft picks? Giving major minutes to raw but intriguing young guys?

That's not rebuilding?

Of course it is. And after all the past, mismatched patch jobs, it's about time.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Bonn1997
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1/26/2005  8:26 PM
that's a great article
BRIGGS
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1/26/2005  8:41 PM
every time i hear the guy, he lies. well atleast he talks, that sure is better than laydumb

But other than KT, Sweet and H20, everyone on the roster is his doing.

RIP Crushalot😞
simrud
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1/26/2005  9:22 PM
If he was really rebulding, then the TT/Mohammed trade would never happen.

Baker would never be here for 2 YEARS.

KT would never get the extension.

Sweetney would be starting by now.

Thomas is just trying to placate the fans. He tells us what we want to here at any particular time.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
MX25
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1/26/2005  9:30 PM
Simrud said it best.
Bonn1997
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1/26/2005  9:52 PM
If he was really rebulding, then the TT/Mohammed trade would never happen.
Why not? What key parts of rebuilding did we give up in that trade?

Baker would never be here for 2 YEARS.
If that was an implicit part of the Crawford deal, which has been reported, then he would be.

Sweetney would be starting by now.
I agree with that. I still think he will be at some point this season or by the start of next season at the latest (unless a new, better PF is added before then)
TMS
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1/26/2005  10:53 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

other than KT, Sweet and H20, everyone on the roster is his doing.

correct...he is directly responsible for Ariza, Crawford, Marbury & JYD being here...good job Isiah.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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1/27/2005  9:55 AM
Posted by simrud:

If he was really rebulding, then the TT/Mohammed trade would never happen.

That's an absurd statement.

We traded KVH, who is making $14,487,000 this year and has a player option for next year of $15,694,250, for Tiny Tim who is making $12,900,000 this year and $13,975,000 next year.

Then, yes we traded Doleac for Nazr who is all of 27 years old.

Now, if you wanted to say the Marbury trade shouldn't have been made- and kept our picks and not taken on Penny's contract, that's different.
simrud
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1/27/2005  11:28 AM
We should have traded KVH for expiring contracts, never bothered with that stiff Mohammed, and yes, the Marbury trade should never have happened.

We should have just bought out Eisly, let Ward and Dyess go, and kept the 2 1st round picks, Lampe, and Vujanich.

The only guy with a max deal left by next year would be Houston. And he is talking about retiring now, so in 2 years from now, we would have no max gusy under contract, 4 lottery picks under out belt, and a ton of capspace to go out and get impact FA's.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Nalod
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1/27/2005  11:33 AM
I think Isiah retooled was that we could not rebuild with the core we had. The garden would be dead. Some buzz, albeit even if artificial was needed to keep revenue going.

its important that we be competitive enough to stay in a playoff race.

That Makes for buzz. Fans eat that up, even if its jsut for a first round bounce.

Isiah has to sell something!
fishmike
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1/27/2005  11:33 AM
try again... when you buy guys out they still count against your cap...
Spoon
Shandon
Eisley
Houston
That pretty much ensures you arent going under the cap until after next year anyway, and most likely after 2 years from now.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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1/27/2005  11:35 AM
and Nalod is right... Isiah will never say he's mailed in the season. Its just bad business. Knicks fans are so fulla crap when they say they can be patient while the team rebuilds. If patient means not watching and buying tickets, then thats a possibility.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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1/27/2005  12:03 PM
what a shame we gave up on Milos- look at what he's doing in the NBA.
EnySpree
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1/27/2005  12:44 PM
If you haven't won a championship in 30 years you are definately on a constant rebuilding mission.

We have to understand that the Knicks are not just gonna trade the bad contracts away. Houston is not Rose. You could always trade Rose cuz he is multi-talented.......Houston has always been one dementional with the richest contract(for a guard) in the history of the NBA.....now he's gimpy. Houston really will become a Knick for life.

What Isiah can do it try to get talent here......just talent. With Isiah's eye for talent in the draft along with his Legendary status amongst his peers......this will be a slow process. Slow meaning every so often Isiah will make a romp. Isiah is due to make something happen soon. He's already brought in Ariza, Steph, Nazr, Craw, JYD, and he instantly made Sweetney a part of the rotation by trading away Othella and Spoon.

Good things will come fellas......We will rebuild till we are at the "ship"......

*Gargle**Gargle**Gargle*.....ahhhhhhh this kool aid is good!
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jazz74
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1/27/2005  12:55 PM
Posted by simrud:

We should have traded KVH for expiring contracts, never bothered with that stiff Mohammed, and yes, the Marbury trade should never have happened.

We should have just bought out Eisly, let Ward and Dyess go, and kept the 2 1st round picks, Lampe, and Vujanich.

The only guy with a max deal left by next year would be Houston. And he is talking about retiring now, so in 2 years from now, we would have no max gusy under contract, 4 lottery picks under out belt, and a ton of capspace to go out and get impact FA's.

and get who? even if those guys walked we would have still been over the salary-cap with van horn and houston's contract. also what team in their right mind will trade theri expiring contracts for the likes of van horn? isaih got tim thomas and he turned out to be a udu. no big deal. their contracts expire next year so we are not comitted to them anyway. as far as steph goes, i am one of those people who is grateful that i have a perosn in steph's caliber on my team. we gave up a lot. sure. but he is a top twenty player talent who is fairly young. the key is the future. bringing someone in to take the load off like an athletic big is the key. it is possible soon. a little bit of patience is needed.
Vmart
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1/27/2005  6:23 PM
Posted by fishmike:

and Nalod is right... Isiah will never say he's mailed in the season. Its just bad business. Knicks fans are so fulla crap when they say they can be patient while the team rebuilds. If patient means not watching and buying tickets, then thats a possibility.

If they are going to rebuild then play the young players. Stop throwing KT down peoples throat. This is the stupidity of NYK basketball. The lack of commitment. They have to take a side youth or vets and stick with it. This is why they suck now its because they want to do everything down the middle. you can't do that they either do or don't. but keeping the team in the middle is trouble.
franco12
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1/27/2005  7:11 PM
how do you trade KT if he is on the bench?
Knicks rebuilding... just wont admit it

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