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Bonn1997
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1/23/2005  3:38 PM
How many teams have two players who are 22 or younger that you would rather have instead of Sweetney and Ariza? I'm not making them out to be the next Duncan and Lebron, but I bet most people would be able to list fewer than half the teams in the league. I also bet that exactly one year ago most people would have been able to list almost every team in the league as having two kids 22 or under who were better than anyone 22 or under on the Knicks.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01/23/2005 15:51:38]
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BRIGGS
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1/23/2005  5:26 PM
you have to be kidding me, right?
RIP Crushalot😞
matt
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1/23/2005  5:28 PM
okay Briggs, name two other 22 and under year old that you would rather have over Sweetney and Ariza
teslawlo
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1/23/2005  5:31 PM
the one positive I find about this loss is that sweetney is herb's pet project and will get more minutes than he did under wilkens I think. Ariza needs to have a better performance when starting.
http://allknicks.com
Silverfuel
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1/23/2005  5:44 PM
Posted by matt:

okay Briggs, name two other 22 and under year old that you would rather have over Sweetney and Ariza
Wade & Amare
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
BRIGGS
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1/23/2005  5:53 PM
Posted by matt:

okay Briggs, name two other 22 and under year old that you would rather have over Sweetney and Ariza
here ill name 10 to start and then give up.
Lebron James Drew gooden
Chris Bosh Matt Bonner
Dwayne Wade Dorrell Wright
Gilbert Arenas Kwamne Brown
Eddie Curry Ben gordon Tyson Chandler
Amare Stoudemire Leandro Barbosa
dwight Howard Jameer Nelson
Al Jefferson Tony Allen
Josh Smith Josh Childress
Emeka Okafor Gerald Wallace

RIP Crushalot😞
PresIke
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1/23/2005  5:57 PM
Lebron, Anthony, Bosh, Dwight Howard --- All over Ariza (who I like)
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
VDesai
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1/23/2005  6:02 PM
How about Curry, Chandler, Deng and Gordon (thats 4!)? How about Lebron James and anyone (Varajao etc)? How about Carmelo and Nene? How about Kaman, Wilcox and Livingston? Amare and Barbosa? These are just off the top of my head. If you set the age barrier a year higher you can probably add a few more teams. The point is we don't really have elite young talent...at best average to slightly above average young talent compared to other teams and we only an average or below average team to begin with.
Rich
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1/23/2005  6:16 PM
Since's Bonn's premise has proven to be untenable, let me reframe his question:

When was the last time that the Knicks had two players who are 22 or younger that had more upside than Sweetney and Ariza?
MaTT4281
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1/23/2005  6:17 PM
Good save Rich.
Allanfan20
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1/23/2005  6:39 PM
Yeah, Rich's question is a little bit more appropriate. Most teams at least have a couple of promising young players. They don't all have to be only 22. 24 or 25 is fine.

And yes, it is very exciting that we have Sweetney and Ariza developing, but they are the types of guys that you'd want to surround a franchise player with. Now, I am not saying tank the season. But I still would love to get that guy Bogat, if he's as good as Briggs says.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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1/24/2005  1:07 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by matt:

okay Briggs, name two other 22 and under year old that you would rather have over Sweetney and Ariza
here ill name 10 to start and then give up.
Lebron James Drew gooden
Chris Bosh Matt Bonner
Dwayne Wade Dorrell Wright
Gilbert Arenas Kwamne Brown
Eddie Curry Ben gordon Tyson Chandler
Amare Stoudemire Leandro Barbosa
dwight Howard Jameer Nelson
Al Jefferson Tony Allen
Josh Smith Josh Childress
Emeka Okafor Gerald Wallace
If you can name only 10, the team is in better shape than I thought. I thought about half the teams would make the list. As for your list, there are many teams where I like the other team's better player more than either of ours but like both of ours more than the 2nd best in their list. (I think Sweetney or Ariza are both better than Gerald Wallace, Nelson, Barbosa, and Bonner; I don't know anything about Dorrel Wright). Still, if you could think of only ten, some of which are questionable, that's huge progress from where the team was one year ago as far as the youth movement/rebuilding is concerned one year ago.
Bonn1997
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1/24/2005  1:08 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Yeah, Rich's question is a little bit more appropriate. Most teams at least have a couple of promising young players. They don't all have to be only 22. 24 or 25 is fine.

And yes, it is very exciting that we have Sweetney and Ariza developing, but they are the types of guys that you'd want to surround a franchise player with. Now, I am not saying tank the season. But I still would love to get that guy Bogat, if he's as good as Briggs says.
The time to get a franchise player is over one of the next two offseasons as the team has its best trade assets then.
MX25
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1/24/2005  4:37 AM
Cavs: Lebron James - Luke Jackson - Drew Gooden - Sasha Pavlovic
Raptors: Chris Bosh - Matt Bonner
Heat: Dwayne Wade - Dorrell Wright
Wizards: Gilbert Arenas - Kwame Brown
Bulls: Eddie Curry - Ben Gordon - Tyson Chandler - Luol Deng - Kirk Hinrich
Suns: Amare Stoudemire - Leandro Barbosa
Magic: Dwight Howard - Jameer Nelson
Celtics: Al Jefferson - Tony Allen
Hawks: Josh Smith - Josh Childress
Bobcats: Emeka Okafor - Gerald Wallace
Spurs: Tony Parker Beno Udrih
Mavs: Marquis Daniels - Devin Harris
Lakers: Caron Butler - Sasha Vujacic
Warriors: Andris Biedrins - Mickael Pietrus
Supersonics: Luke Ridnour - Nick Collison - Robert Swift
Jazz: Kris Humphries - Kirk Synder
Blazers: Sebastin Telfair - Travis Outlaw - Zack Randolph
Nets: Nenad Krstic - Zoran Planinic
Nuggets: Carmelo Anthony - Nene
Hornets: JR Smith - Maciej Lampe - Dan Dickau
Pistons: Darko Milicic - Carlos Delfino
Sixers: Andre Igoudala - Samuel Dalembert - Kyle Korver.
Bonn1997
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1/24/2005  8:15 AM
A lot of those teams have ONE player I'd take over our two. I asked you to list teams with TWO players under 22 that you'd take over our two. (Don't tell me you'd really take both players in each of those pairs over our two players.)
islesfan
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1/24/2005  11:15 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by matt:

okay Briggs, name two other 22 and under year old that you would rather have over Sweetney and Ariza
here ill name 10 to start and then give up.
Lebron James Drew gooden
Chris Bosh Matt Bonner
Dwayne Wade Dorrell Wright
Gilbert Arenas Kwamne Brown
Eddie Curry Ben gordon Tyson Chandler
Amare Stoudemire Leandro Barbosa
dwight Howard Jameer Nelson
Al Jefferson Tony Allen
Josh Smith Josh Childress
Emeka Okafor Gerald Wallace
If you can name only 10, the team is in better shape than I thought. I thought about half the teams would make the list. As for your list, there are many teams where I like the other team's better player more than either of ours but like both of ours more than the 2nd best in their list. (I think Sweetney or Ariza are both better than Gerald Wallace, Nelson, Barbosa, and Bonner; I don't know anything about Dorrel Wright). Still, if you could think of only ten, some of which are questionable, that's huge progress from where the team was one year ago as far as the youth movement/rebuilding is concerned one year ago.

First off Briggs named 10 off the top of his head, it wasn't that he couldn't name anymore than that. Secondly, if you thought that people could name at least half of the team in the NBA then what was the point to this exercise in the first place??? That the Knicks were mediocre, at best, when it comes to developing young players? You're starting to sound like your hero Isiah, really happy about being mediocre.

A lot of those teams have ONE player I'd take over our two. I asked you to list teams with TWO players under 22 that you'd take over our two. (Don't tell me you'd really take both players in each of those pairs over our two players.)

The question wasn't who you would take, it was about what other people would and MX just gave you 22 teams worth of young players. Why are you arguing about his opinion which you asked for?

Just give this up already.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
simrud
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1/24/2005  11:29 AM
Knicks have 2 players that are worth developing. Hurray!!!

Most teams have a bench full of young promising playes, we have 2, big freakin deal.

Having only 2 players you want to still be on the team next year is pretty awful.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
fishmike
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1/24/2005  12:33 PM
wel... if the Knicks can add 2 a year we will be ok. That means executing in the draft with at least one pick, and signing a guy thats going to be a pieces long term for cheap thats also young.

Right now we would pick #9. I doubt thats going to hold however. Lets see what happens at the deadline, if IT moves a vet for an expiring deal and even a #2 you have an idea where the plan is going.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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1/24/2005  12:36 PM
if the Knicks can add 2 a year we will be ok
exactly
Bonn1997
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1/24/2005  12:42 PM
Secondly, if you thought that people could name at least half of the team in the NBA then what was the point to this exercise in the first place???
If the Knicks young players ranked around 30th last year and are around 15th this year, then that's HUGE, rapid movement in the right direction.

The question wasn't who you would take, it was about what other people would and MX just gave you 22 teams worth of young players. Why are you arguing about his opinion which you asked for?

I'm not arguing with his opinion. I just wanted to make sure he understood the question I was asking, which was which teams have a pair of players where you'd take BOTH of theirs over our two young guys. If he understood that that's what I was asking, I don't see how he would pick instead of Ariza and Sweetney, guys like Matt Bonner, Lampe, Delfino, anyone on the Nets, Collison, Robert Swift, or many other players on the teams). Before I argued my point with him, I just wanted to make sure he understood that I was asking for teams where you would take BOTH not just one of their players over ours (meaning their top two players in the pair are better than ours).

Why are you arguing about his opinion which you asked for?
Believe it or not, you're allowed to argue over opinions. Most forums would die if you weren't allowed to!
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