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Nalod
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USA
1/8/2005  10:59 PM
Just curious,

How long does Isiah get a free pass from fans. We are an impatient group. We have defended the team against the likes of Chad FOrd and Mitch Lawrence, but at this moment in time those bashings are resonable. That 2nd period on the box score looked brutal!

There will be more bad articles in the morning. Sunday is bashday!

I did not see game today. How did Allan move today. Im not interested in stats, but his lateral movement.

His defense suffers with little lateral movement, and he won't try to take to to the hoop until he can move.

It takes time to work back in, and this is very important as he can open things up down low.

AUTOADVERT
Killa4luv
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USA
1/9/2005  12:23 AM
I thought he moved well in the beginning of the game. He was running and he looked good. Laterally, well, he still couldn't get himself open really but he did see many open looks, and clanked them. Mostly in the second half. I think he was 3 for 8 in the first half and then 3 for 14 in the whole game. You figure it out.

The articles will be crazy, but we are missing Craw and to a lessor extent sweetney. Bruno got like 7 minutes in tonight and he looked good. He made like 3 or 4 20 footers. NOt bad. Steph wasn't really penetrating or looking to score much. He just kept dishing and dishing and dishing and no one was really making shots. TT successfully posted up Lebron about 3 or 4 times. But Lebron had about 5 dunks in the first half.

This was about offense today. No one on the knicks could score and they got so many transition points. They were playing like the suns and our transition defense was like-well, the suns.

Nazzy was handled in the paint by Big Z, and our teram defense was the worst.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 01/09/2005 23:29:53]
djsunyc
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1/9/2005  12:34 AM
it depends what you mean by "free pass".

i think we all have to look at it in terms of the big picture. we should look at what the situation was when he got here. what the owner's agenda is and what steps isiah has done to fix our problems.

he inherited a team with a bloated payroll, old, very unathletic, pretty much unmoveable players and didn't really have a franchise/star player. closest was spree or houston.

when you are presented with this situation, there are two roads to go by. one is let the contracts expire, blow it up, build through the draft and give the rookies minutes. (which were frank, lampe and sweetney when isiah started). the other is to try to rebuild the roster on the fly with what moveable, if any, pieces we had (expiring deals, picks, or our youngn's).

isiah chose the latter. or it could have been on dolan's instructions. we'll never know. but isiah saw what was available. rumored were sheed, reef, and marbury. he chose marbury and moved expiring deals, old washed up players, and young players and picks to get him and take on alot more $$$ with penny. he took sweetney off IR and he got minutes. he got rid of the coaches, i'm assuming b/c he wanted to get rid of anything layden related. or maybe he just didn't like what he saw in practices. we'll never know.

then he made another deal to get rid of kvh and doleac. both were playing well but neither were athletic. so he brought in a career underachiever and nazr ("the key to the deal"). tim was solid for us last year but we clearly now know that nazr was the better player.

he had a point guard, h20 was shut down with knee problems so he went after crawford. he got him and more $$$ with jyd in exchange for expiring deals. no player of value. strict money deal that dolan can absorb. he also drafted ariza in the 2nd round. so in his first trade deadline and first offseason, he acquired his starting backcourt for the next 6 years, a nice young prospect at SF, and a decent C. all upgrades talent wise from their predecessors. took on a boatload of $$$'s to do it, but that's the route he chose.

now looking back on it, marbury is still a very very good player and like shaq said, on any night can be the best in the nba. crawford is a young athletic player, very streaky, but has the skillset and potential to become a star and is only 24. ariza looks to be a nice piece and sweetney has continued to improve. nazr has turned out to be better than anybody thought. h20 is still hurt so the crawford signing was good. from rumors, isiah tried to move kurt but to no avail. he and nazr are having career years. their stocks are high and i look/hope that isiah moves them to get a real frontcourt in here.

now we have a #1 and a #2 pick this year. we have ALOT more expiring deals so we can make some moves. it seems like isiah targeted backcourt as his number 1 upgrade. now he needs to address the frontcourt. so by the end of next season, this will pretty much tell us what he did for our franchise.

some people don't like isiah. some people don't like marbury. so they don't like what's going on. some people don't like lenny either. that's fine. just like isiah, there's two ways to go as a fan. one is to wait and see and the other is to criticize everything as they are right now. i am in the wait and see approach. isiah has done alot of good things (mainly, the talent he's brought in so far). and he's also done bad things (the useless talent at the end of the bench - moochie, vin, bruno, brewer).

what were your questions again?

oh yeah, h20 is playing pretty gimpy. can't really move around. he can't go around screens on the offense and is pretty useless on the defensive end. tim is not playing well. it's really pretty bad. marbury pretty much has to do everything himself. nobody else on the team can really do anything themselves without marbury setting it up for them. that's why we miss crawford and his ability to create so much.
newyorknewyork
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1/9/2005  12:47 AM
I think we should just look to swap old for young and unload salary. Then by 07 our cap situation would be managable plus have a young core with great chemistry since they were kept together the last few yrs. Marbury would be 30-31 by then and looking at what Kidd & Nash did at that age that isn't bad to put around a 28yr old Crawford, 24yr old Sweetney, 23 yr old Ariza. And which ever youngin we add.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
BRIGGS
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1/9/2005  1:28 AM
its impossible to rebuild. this thing that we are rebuilding is a fallacy, yes we have some younger players but so does every team in the league right? why is it impossible to rebuild? how about 1750$ court side seats, only content on MSG, 106mm$ payroll

yeah ive been begging to bag it for years and they went a different route, theyre not going to do it. this piss poor thing about it is, Miami bit the bullet for all of what 2 years--they collect nice assets quickly, were able to acquire odom, had an incredible run last two months of the year and now stand as potential favorites to win it all.
the chicago bulls wouldve been better so much faster but they over did it just think about it, their frontline wouldve been Brad miller Elton brand Ron Artest
Pheonix orlando all have expedited bad times into good.

what we need is to execute on a 6-10 pick and then comeback the next year and be a player for pick 1-- total time--2 years but were stuck in this fantasy land that we are 1 player away when teams like wash clev orl miami are all stocked up with real young proven studs and will and have passed us.

and now we have dudes fighting with each other, marbury apparently punked out hardaway and thomas got mad at him, as much as crazy eyes could get heated--hes been good friends with sprewell camby houston, we didnt have divisions like what is being reported.
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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1/9/2005  7:55 AM
briggs - we couldn't do what those other teams did b/c our salaries were pretty much unmoveable and were locked in til 06/07. could we have played rookies and lost more games thus ensuring better picks, yes, we could have done that. but with the players already here (spree, ward, kurt, allan, etc.) we weren't bad enough to win <30 games and adding good picks wouldn't have helped that. so we would have been this 35 win team for the past two years, with young players but still not under the cap for another 2 years. so doing what these other teams did and get under the cap in order to sign the free agents (like miami did with lamar and pho with nash + q) was not a possibility b/c we couldn't dump our bad contracts. we would have had some nice young talent but not bad enough to get a top 5 pick nor good enough to make the playoffs consistently. we would've been stuck. our shot to rebuild was 2001 when ewing was in his last year. the choice not to along with layden's ineptitude put us back at least 5 seasons (even if we did absolutely nothing).

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01/09/2005 07:57:43]
raven
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Canada
1/9/2005  8:00 AM
you're absoolutly right on the money dsj, but you're wasting your energy there.
Nalod
Posts: 71374
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Joined: 12/24/2003
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USA
1/9/2005  11:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

it depends what you mean by "free pass".

i think we all have to look at it in terms of the big picture. we should look at what the situation was when he got here. what the owner's agenda is and what steps isiah has done to fix our problems.

he inherited a team with a bloated payroll, old, very unathletic, pretty much unmoveable players and didn't really have a franchise/star player. closest was spree or houston.

when you are presented with this situation, there are two roads to go by. one is let the contracts expire, blow it up, build through the draft and give the rookies minutes. (which were frank, lampe and sweetney when isiah started). the other is to try to rebuild the roster on the fly with what moveable, if any, pieces we had (expiring deals, picks, or our youngn's).

isiah chose the latter. or it could have been on dolan's instructions. we'll never know. but isiah saw what was available. rumored were sheed, reef, and marbury. he chose marbury and moved expiring deals, old washed up players, and young players and picks to get him and take on alot more $$$ with penny. he took sweetney off IR and he got minutes. he got rid of the coaches, i'm assuming b/c he wanted to get rid of anything layden related. or maybe he just didn't like what he saw in practices. we'll never know.

then he made another deal to get rid of kvh and doleac. both were playing well but neither were athletic. so he brought in a career underachiever and nazr ("the key to the deal"). tim was solid for us last year but we clearly now know that nazr was the better player.

he had a point guard, h20 was shut down with knee problems so he went after crawford. he got him and more $$$ with jyd in exchange for expiring deals. no player of value. strict money deal that dolan can absorb. he also drafted ariza in the 2nd round. so in his first trade deadline and first offseason, he acquired his starting backcourt for the next 6 years, a nice young prospect at SF, and a decent C. all upgrades talent wise from their predecessors. took on a boatload of $$$'s to do it, but that's the route he chose.

now looking back on it, marbury is still a very very good player and like shaq said, on any night can be the best in the nba. crawford is a young athletic player, very streaky, but has the skillset and potential to become a star and is only 24. ariza looks to be a nice piece and sweetney has continued to improve. nazr has turned out to be better than anybody thought. h20 is still hurt so the crawford signing was good. from rumors, isiah tried to move kurt but to no avail. he and nazr are having career years. their stocks are high and i look/hope that isiah moves them to get a real frontcourt in here.

now we have a #1 and a #2 pick this year. we have ALOT more expiring deals so we can make some moves. it seems like isiah targeted backcourt as his number 1 upgrade. now he needs to address the frontcourt. so by the end of next season, this will pretty much tell us what he did for our franchise.

some people don't like isiah. some people don't like marbury. so they don't like what's going on. some people don't like lenny either. that's fine. just like isiah, there's two ways to go as a fan. one is to wait and see and the other is to criticize everything as they are right now. i am in the wait and see approach. isiah has done alot of good things (mainly, the talent he's brought in so far). and he's also done bad things (the useless talent at the end of the bench - moochie, vin, bruno, brewer).

what were your questions again?

oh yeah, h20 is playing pretty gimpy. can't really move around. he can't go around screens on the offense and is pretty useless on the defensive end. tim is not playing well. it's really pretty bad. marbury pretty much has to do everything himself. nobody else on the team can really do anything themselves without marbury setting it up for them. that's why we miss crawford and his ability to create so much.

Wow! Nice effort.

I ment by free pass cuz nobody is laying any blame toward Isiah!

Perosnally I like the guy, and like what he is about. I think he can do better at times (Chaney-WilkinsGate).

That being said, all the players doing well, or bad are born from Isiahs moves.

ANd if the Thud gets louder, he takes the heat.
fishmike
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Member: #298
USA
1/9/2005  11:07 PM
Houston was terrible tonight. Even Breen said he should still be coming off the bench but the Crawford injury has him playing. He did hit all his shots (literally) and made some good passes. Port wasnt able to exploit him on D (enough) and he still cant get back in transition. Luckily however JYD, Marbury and Ariza (about 30 mins) were able too.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
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Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
1/9/2005  11:45 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Houston was terrible tonight.
What game were you watching? Houston had 25 points 12 in the 3rd and Derek Anderson had all of 8 points. He wasn't moving very well and he definitely was a liability on D, but saying he was terrible tonight is crazy.

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