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Webber and Thomas Have History By LIZ ROBBINS
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raven
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1/5/2005  7:29 AM
Webber and Thomas Have History
By LIZ ROBBINS

Published: January 5, 2005

The smile was pure Broadway and Seventh Avenue. When Chris Webber flashed a grin yesterday morning in a near-empty Madison Square Garden, it glimmered wistfully, playfully and mysteriously all at once.

If something seemed familiar, it was because Isiah Thomas, the Knicks' president, also possesses that Cheshire cat grin. And Thomas happened to be Webber's mentor growing up in Michigan.

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"I've always been a fan of this organization, especially Steph and Isiah," said Webber, the Sacramento Kings forward, referring to Knicks guard Stephon Marbury. "I've known Isiah forever."

Webber and Thomas first met at the Silverdome two decades ago. Webber was 12 and Thomas, playing for the Pistons, was holding a basketball clinic after a game. Webber and his brother, David, would later attend Thomas's summer camps.

Is it time to consider a reunion? The question is not implausible.

The Knicks could be one of the few teams in the league to take on Webber's weighty contract ($17.5 million this season, with approximately $62 million and three years remaining in the $123 million deal).

There have been discussions within the organization, according to two people briefed on the Knicks' conversations, that a deal for Webber could work financially, but no trade has been proposed.

When asked if he would welcome such a trade, Webber shook his head and smiled. "I think right now I just have to keep playing," he said.

"You know, there's really no way to answer that without getting in trouble. But I'll tell you, I've loved Isiah forever. He's been a mentor and a friend."

Webber seemed instantly comfortable at the Garden last night. He grabbed a team-high 11 rebounds and scored a team-high 22 points, making two key jumpers in the final 1 minute 18 seconds to seal the Kings' 105-98 victory over the Knicks.

The Knicks need such a low-post scorer, and Webber, 31, despite returning from his 2003 operation on his left knee that limited him to 23 games, is putting up big numbers again. He is averaging 20.9 points and a team-leading 9.3 rebounds. He provides just the splash Thomas likes to make.

"I think I have so much to concentrate on now, as far as the health and the season and playing games," Webber said, dismissing the thought.

"My brother told me he had heard rumors about New York. Rumors, you don't want to get excited about anything. I just think I'm in the place where I'm letting anything that happens happen."

Thomas, when asked which player he would like to add to the roster, simply answered, "Shaquille O'Neal." He would not comment on Webber.

The Knicks have players with contracts that expire after next season to bundle in a trade - Tim Thomas, Penny Hardaway, and Moochie Norris.

Webber's age and his health - he missed a combined 102 games the past three seasons - could cause the Kings to consider taking on expiring contracts to restructure the team. Sacramento fans booed Webber when he played poorly after the knee surgery.

In the off-season, Peja Stojakovic requested a trade because he was upset with the locker-room chemistry, and Webber implored his team to play harder. The two stars have appeared to solve their differences, yet the Kings' future seems uncertain.

The Kings have the fourth-best record in the West (20-9), even with their nemesis, O'Neal gone to the East. They won 12 of 13 games, but on Dec. 16, suffered their worst loss at home to the Lakers, 115-99.

"I still think we're the best in the West," Webber said, as he is starting to return to form.

On Monday, they lost guard Bobby Jackson to wrist surgery for the regular season. Maurice Evans, a shooting guard who played in Italy last year, replaced him, adding 16 points and defending Marbury solidly last night.

Kings Coach Rick Adelman said of Webber: "This year, he still has a ways to go. But we see more and more nights where he's got a bounce in his step. Some times he will have dead games. We're just hoping as the season goes on his knee will get stronger."

Webber said, "I think a lot of people still think that I'm done, and I think that I'm just getting started this year."

For Webber, his roots are in Michigan, a place of mixed memories spanning his infamous timeout call in the N.C.A.A. tournament final to his having faced criminal charges for accepting money from a booster.

Webber prefers to think of his Michigan roots at Thomas's clinic.

"My brother asked how much money he makes," Webber said with a laugh. "My brother was about 6 years old at the time. I remember, it was a big thing in my family, we talk about it all the time.

"Isiah answered, 'How much money do you think I'm making?' My brother said, 'A lot of money.'"

"What's a lot of money?" Thomas asked David Webber, who shrugged. Thomas smiled and said, "You're right."

Perhaps someday Thomas might revisit that question with regard to Webber and ask, "What's a lot of money?"


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/05/sports/basketball/05webber.html?oref=login
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EnySpree
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1/5/2005  7:54 AM
Knicks need Webber.....

Webber is like a Brooklyn dude for real....he has that brooklyn attitude.

I wish he was in NY.....
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diderotn
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1/5/2005  8:01 AM
Webb would be an excellent pickup for us, but the Kings are not dumb enough to let him go this season. Earlier in the beginning of the season when all of that stuff with Peja was happening, we had an excellent opportunity at acquiring him, but I think that some folks were scared. Isiah has yet to mention Webb in any trade, but I won't be surprised if he tries to put together a deal for this dude. Webb is still a star, maybe not as good as he used to be, but what he brings to the game is just fantastic. Excellent passer, definite low-post presence, and most of all a 20/9 every freaking night. With Nazr playing the five, Webb drawing a double team, Marburry and Crawff penetrating, Houston knocking the jumpers, a solid supporting bench with: Brewer, Crawf, Ariza, JYD, Sweet, we could compete with the best of them.
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EnySpree
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1/5/2005  8:07 AM
you are right diderotn....

What makes Webber good is that if he doesn't have it offensively he will look to pass and he usually gets like 5-7 when he isn't shooting well.

He would make the Knicks complete.

Pipe dream I'm afraid......

Sacramento would be fine with Songala(SP?) They would need a back up to him and a shooting guard. Houston and KT would be nice by the deadline but the money involved would just be silly.

I'm sure Sac would want Craw.....I would hate to trade Craw away.....Knicks could always find a similiar player....but still. Craw jacks up alot of shots but he makes quite a few of those especially in the clutch.....he's a killer.

Maybe Timmy, Moochie and Sweetney for Webber? nah......it just doesn't make sense....

Still would love him in a Knick uniform.

[Edited by - enyspree on 01/05/2005 08:18:54]
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rvhoss
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1/5/2005  8:16 AM
I wish we could keep tim thomas and get c web.

Could we give them nazr and kurt?

Keep sweets and c-web, with tt, craw and marbs in the back court.

Letting h20, penny go as well in the deal?

looks like sundov is ready to play more minutes...possibly give up vinnie the tin man baker as well?

JYD, Ariza and sweets coupled with tt, craw and marbs and cweb looks good to me.
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raven
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1/5/2005  8:26 AM
guys, I think you must have misread or not read the following :

- Webber's weighty contract ($17.5 million this season, with approximately $62 million and three years remaining in the $123 million deal)

- he missed a combined 102 games the past three seasons

Getting webber would put us back in the glenrice philosophy, destroy any chance to improve and erase nearly all the progresses that have been done.

Thx but no thx.
diderotn
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1/5/2005  8:28 AM
Perfect scenario or perfect trade

Sacramento & the Knicks
Webb and draft pick for TT AND Houston

N.O
Kurt and Penny for Jim Jackson and PJ Brown....

Webb would have reunited with Jimmy Jackson and the rest would have been history..... Promote Jimmy Jackson to replace TT, and Webb could be the star that we need up-front with Sweet backing him up. Isiah is not talking about it because he doesn't the same situation taht happened with Rasheed and Vince to reoccur.


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EnySpree
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1/5/2005  8:31 AM
Posted by raven:

guys, I think you must have misread or not read the following :

- Webber's weighty contract ($17.5 million this season, with approximately $62 million and three years remaining in the $123 million deal)

- he missed a combined 102 games the past three seasons

Getting webber would put us back in the glenrice philosophy, destroy any chance to improve and erase nearly all the progresses that have been done.

Thx but no thx.

Yeah.....but Webber isn't on the type of decline Glen Rice was.....plus Glen was behind Spree and Houston.....that was stupid.

I see what you mean.....we alll know what you mean.

Still Webber brings so much to a game it's just awesome. Sactown can win without him and seem to play better when he is out. Sac could use Houston but Webber for Houston would make Sactown the laughing stock of the league.

Pipe dream.

Now....Craw and timmy for Webber and a Filler? I just don't know.
Ariza would have to develop that jumper quick, lol......I would really miss Craw......but the Knicks would have Webber....geez.
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diderotn
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1/5/2005  8:40 AM
What those of you who are reluctant to such a deal fail to realize is this: great passer, rebounder, can shoot the ball. He may not be as athletic as he used to be, but you can never take away his court vision. That is why guys like Kidd will always be a good PG even when he turns 40. Jordan proved that one can always recreate his game.
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Nalod
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1/5/2005  8:58 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Perfect scenario or perfect trade

Sacramento & the Knicks
Webb and draft pick for TT AND Houston

N.O
Kurt and Penny for Jim Jackson and PJ Brown....

Webb would have reunited with Jimmy Jackson and the rest would have been history..... Promote Jimmy Jackson to replace TT, and Webb could be the star that we need up-front with Sweet backing him up. Isiah is not talking about it because he doesn't the same situation taht happened with Rasheed and Vince to reoccur.

That would make us older and less athletic.
diderotn
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1/5/2005  9:10 AM
How so? we would still have: Marb, Crawf, Ariza, Sweetney, Nazr, JJ. Webb may not be the highflyer that he once was, but he is not as bad as Houston. Houston can no longer dunk the ball, but Webb with his hight differential can.
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raven
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1/5/2005  9:25 AM
you guys are just crazy.

Webber is one of the biggest choker on earth.
He's overpaid, and has please put your glasses on :

ABSOLUTLY NO POST GAME AND CANT DEFEND TO SAVE HIS LIFE

Comon, he's got a bloated contract, is on the decline and can only make jumpshot.
Thinking about trading for this guy is just too painful.

Am I alone on this board to think that ?

Nalod
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1/5/2005  9:31 AM
Posted by diderotn:

How so? we would still have: Marb, Crawf, Ariza, Sweetney, Nazr, JJ. Webb may not be the highflyer that he once was, but he is not as bad as Houston. Houston can no longer dunk the ball, but Webb with his hight differential can.

WTF? Web can dunk cuz he is taller? That is your basis? Allan has been back all of 10 games? TT (they don't need) and Allan? Sac does not need these players.

N.O. taking on Pennys contract for this year and next with Kurt does not do much for them now, nor next year.

I feel your pain, but..........
fishmike
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1/5/2005  9:37 AM
Posted by raven:

you guys are just crazy.

Webber is one of the biggest choker on earth.
He's overpaid, and has please put your glasses on :

ABSOLUTLY NO POST GAME AND CANT DEFEND TO SAVE HIS LIFE

Comon, he's got a bloated contract, is on the decline and can only make jumpshot.
Thinking about trading for this guy is just too painful.

Am I alone on this board to think that ?


probably... CWebb has excellent post moves, but he does take a lot of long jumpers. His problem is health. He's a good defender, used to give you some blocked shots, excellent rebounder and easily one of the top 3-4 passing bigmen in the NBA. He's only overpaid because he's hurt alot. When he's healthy he's a 20/10/2/4 player on an elite West team.

If we didnt give up young players or picks I would have no problem with a CWeb trade. KT&TT type of thing. If Sac wants to save $35mm like that by dumping him I'm for it.
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TMS
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1/5/2005  9:45 AM
the time to trade for him was in the offseason...you could have realistically got him for a cap relief type package that included KT...but now, the guy is putting up tremendous numbers...it would take a much better package to get him now.

funny, so many of you were lambasting some of us who were advocating a trade for CWebb a few months ago...now he's putting up numbers & everyone wants him again.

When he's healthy he's a 20/10/2/4 player on an elite West team.

he's giving you that RIGHT NOW & he's not even at 100%.
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fishmike
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1/5/2005  9:51 AM
it would have been a bad trade then. Despite the fact that it would have worked out it would have been totally irresponsible
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Nalod
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1/5/2005  9:57 AM
I don't think its about the here and now, but about the next 3 1/2 years on that contract.

NO deal realistcally could be done without shedding Allans contract.

CWeb looked awful last year. Looks better now, but hindsight is always clearer.

Allan has not played that many games, and we must give him more time to get well. Like CWeb looked shot last year, there is similar sentiment for Allan this year. Allan was an Iron man his whole career. CWeb has been fragile for many years now.

I can apprciate his play of late, but there is but so much money, and if Allan could not be traded, would we still have the assets in place to compliment CWeb and be more competitive at the same time?
TMS
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1/5/2005  9:59 AM
oh come one fish...you know as well as anyone that you can't hope to get players like CWebb when they're performing well...you have to get them when their values are at an alltime low when you don't have many tradeable assets to offer...right now, it would take way too much to get CWebb over here...TT? why would SAC be even remotely interested in him when they have 1 of the premier SF's in the game already in Peja? unless you think they'd not mind a guy averaging something like 3 rpg at the SF spot to be their PF?

right now, i'd venture to say that it would take at the very least a package of KT or Nazr, along w/Sweetney or Ariza & another filler contract like JYD to get CWebb...now tell me what's more irresponsible - trading all that to get CWebb or trading KT & cap fodder for him before the season began?
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raven
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1/5/2005  10:00 AM
No, it would be a bad trade.

Maybe not this year, when he's better than KT. But the next, when he clearly wont bring what those expiring contract would.

I think you're overestimating that guy badly.

One day you want to rebuild on the fly and crticize layden from bringing macdyess, the next you hope that IT does the same mistake, by bringing an overpaid loser with a bum knee.

Can't remember who said that, but it sounds right today :

"we learn from history that we never learn from history".

Teams on the rise dont bet on ailing vets, they bet on the future. webber is the past.
diderotn
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1/5/2005  10:02 AM
the few things that separate Houston from Cwebb are huge: rebound, assist, hight. Cwebb has all of that. The one good thing that Houston can do(jump shooting), a healthy Cwebb can do as well. Jump shooter with a bad knee is worth very little. Michael Redd will be available next season, if we trade HOuston now, we may have a chance at acquiring him.....
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Webber and Thomas Have History By LIZ ROBBINS

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