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dalembert against the sonics
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Bizzy211
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12/29/2004  11:33 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Nazr is nice... I'm THRILLED with the season he's having. I'm just trying to be future oriented and realistic. I'm very happy future wise with our wing players in Marb, Craw, Ariza, Houston and even TT (if nothing else his contract next year is an asset). We get good production from the center spot, but it often doesnt change the game. We MUST get younger and LONGER up front. Look at the Washington game where Brandon Haywood was having his way with Nazr. None of our frontcourt guys force the opposition to change their shots.

Amen
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
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TMS
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12/29/2004  11:57 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:

OK. We agree to diasagree.

you are not allowed to agree to disagree with me...you are only allowed to agree not to disagree...agreed?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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12/29/2004  12:27 PM
why isn't Dalembert starting?

in 9 games as a starter, his numbers are:

MPG...27.2
FG%....563
FT%....550
OFF...3.6
DEF...5.1
RPG...8.7
APG...0.8
SPG...0.22
BPG...2.56
PPG...7.2

Yes- Nazr is one block less, but he is also averaging nearly one more steal per game than Dalembert when they play comparable mins. (27 vs 30)

Not sure why Phil would take Nazr back when Marc Jackson seems to be having a good year for them.

And yes, there is something to be said for trading a player at the height of his value- but what if Nazr continues to play at this level for the next five years?
tkf
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12/29/2004  12:51 PM
Enyspree, In 3 years steph will just be turning 30, and there is a chance steph's best ball is still yet to come, remember Jason kidd had his best years from age 29 until now IMO. Devin harris will be lucky to be half as good any time in his career as steph is right now.
The difference is Nazr is playing better, but do you see anymore upside to nazr? I really don't, but with Dalembert, his has upside written all over him, especially defensively, if we can get him for nazr, then you do it!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Allanfan20
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12/29/2004  12:56 PM
For the people that say that Dalembert will only give a couple of more blocked shots a game:

If a guy averages 2 blocked shots a game, he is considered to be a big time defender, unless he is Shawn Bradley, and even he has been doing much better with the Mavs. You keep guys from penetrating, and most players don't wanna go even near you, if you can block a couple each game, unless of course, they are gonna try and dunk over you. More times than not, they will be unsuccessful b/c dunking alone is hard.

So you got a good shotblocker. Nobody wants to go near him. For the most part, he patrols the lane. Nobody wants to drive to the basket. You force a bad jumpshooting team into taking jumpshots. Recipe for winning. But you want to pass up on a guy who can do that, and plenty more. You are freaking nuts.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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12/29/2004  12:57 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

Well Steph is gonna be thirty soon should we trade him now and try to get Devin Harris?

a better question would be do you trade Marbury now to get Dwayne Wade...i would w/o blinking.

Yeah, he's also one of the few (Along with Iverson and Pierce) I would trade Marbury for.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
franco12
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12/29/2004  1:08 PM
Dalembert strikes me as one-dimensional- defensive player.

I don't want to downplay what he can bring to a game, but I just think that if Nazr can continue to play at this level- you're better off keeping him and trying to find the next Dalembert or something like him.

I think my thought is if you were to do a straight up trade, yes, you get back a younger shot blocking potential next Marcus Camby, but you might miss more what you give up in Nazr on the offensive end.

Everyone is screaming on this board- We need a post player to open up outside shots

Is Dalembert a post player? He's a toothpick with nearly zero offensive skills.

Look at his FT%? he has no touch beyond the put back slam.
NYKBocker
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12/29/2004  1:11 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYKBocker:

OK. We agree to diasagree.

you are not allowed to agree to disagree with me...you are only allowed to agree not to disagree...agreed?

Man. You sound like my wife.
Can we agree to not to disagree if we agree that the topic is agreeable...agreed?

Bizzy211
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12/29/2004  1:19 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYKBocker:

OK. We agree to diasagree.

you are not allowed to agree to disagree with me...you are only allowed to agree not to disagree...agreed?

Man. You sound like my wife.
Can we agree to not to disagree if we agree that the topic is agreeable...agreed?

Are u voluntarily admitting that ur wife wears the pants in ur relationship
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
fishmike
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12/29/2004  1:22 PM
franco.. what exactly are we getting from Nazr now? And yes.. we do need a post player, but we also need someone that can guard the lane.

If you just want to stick with 27-28 year old guys because they are playing well and be happy playing around .500 ok. Is the goal to improve? To win a championship? Is this a core of players that will win a title in the next 2-3 years? And if so is Nazr the center that will help me win that goal?

I say no but thats just me. I'm looking at impact, not stats on a player's profile. Would you rather have Nazr getting 14/10 a night, or Theo Ratliff who will give you 8/8/3.5 ? Sorry, but despite the #s Theo has a MUCH bigger impact on the game, and not just because he gets a couple blocks, but because he forces how the opposition plays.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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12/29/2004  1:25 PM
Posted by Bizzy211:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYKBocker:

OK. We agree to diasagree.

you are not allowed to agree to disagree with me...you are only allowed to agree not to disagree...agreed?

Man. You sound like my wife.
Can we agree to not to disagree if we agree that the topic is agreeable...agreed?

Are u voluntarily admitting that ur wife wears the pants in ur relationship

Sad but true. She gave me 4 beautiful children. I can't really say no.
TMS
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12/29/2004  1:28 PM
if you guys want a post player, we already have Sweetney...throw him in next to Dalembert & you have a nice mix imo...add KT's perimeter shooting & you have another dimension to add to the mix.

personally, i don't see any way the Sixers would trade us Dalembert for Nazr straight up though...but if you could do the deal, it's a no brainer for me.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
NYKBocker
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12/29/2004  1:28 PM
Uh oh! CBS Sportsline has Nazr as the 6th best center in the league.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/C

CENTERS

PLAYER RATING LAST
WEEK CHANGE GP MPG PPG RPG APG FG % FT %
1. Amare Stoudemire, PHO 77.87 77.32 +0.55 28 36.3 26.0 8.6 1.5 58.4 72.3
2. Shaquille O'Neal, MIA 75.50 75.06 +0.44 29 35.0 21.5 10.8 3.0 60.7 45.5
3. Brad Miller, SAC 69.98 69.98 +0.00 26 35.4 14.7 8.6 3.8 50.4 85.0
4. Yao Ming, HOU 66.01 66.55 -0.54 28 31.6 18.7 8.8 0.9 51.7 78.8
5. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, CLE 65.75 65.30 +0.45 28 33.5 16.5 7.5 1.4 45.7 83.0
6. Nazr Mohammed, NY 61.01 61.30 -0.29 28 30.1 12.2 9.4 0.4 52.8 74.3
7. Ben Wallace, DET 59.86 59.91 -0.05 18 39.3 10.0 12.6 2.0 44.4 45.5
8. Marc Jackson, PHI 57.81 57.59 +0.22 27 28.3 14.7 6.4 0.8 50.7 81.3
9. Marcus Camby, DEN 56.53 56.23 +0.30 24 30.6 8.8 8.8 1.7 45.6 72.3
10. Mark Blount, BOS 56.28 56.54 -0.26 27 30.9 11.6 5.8 1.7 53.5 73.7
TMS
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12/29/2004  1:29 PM
Posted by Bizzy211:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYKBocker:

OK. We agree to diasagree.

you are not allowed to agree to disagree with me...you are only allowed to agree not to disagree...agreed?

Man. You sound like my wife.
Can we agree to not to disagree if we agree that the topic is agreeable...agreed?

Are u voluntarily admitting that ur wife wears the pants in ur relationship

i don't like to interfere in marital affairs.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
newyorknewyork
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12/29/2004  1:31 PM
Even if Muhammad plays this way for the next 5yrs he will still be just a quality role player who doesn't have that much effect on the team.

Just imagine the damage Ariza & Dalembert would do. Ariza covers a lot of ground in the passing lanes and on the perimeter. Just imagine when he starts getting more experienced having a shotblocker to have his back would make him very deadly. Or a big man that needs to be doubled when a rebound goes up allows him to sneak in for lots of put backs and tip ins. Dalembert covers a lot of ground around the blocks he makes guards heisitate and allows our guards/forwards to cheat a little bit in the passing lanes and take chances on steals and still have a dependable 2nd line of defense. imagine what JYD could get away with.

This team is already solid in tipping passes. Having a guy like Dalembert allows the team to play even more aggressive as they would have confidence in there help D. Guys like Crawford & Ariza & Sweetney & JYD would be a force in the passing lanes.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fishmike
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12/29/2004  1:36 PM
pleasedont throw stats in my face... unless its to demonstrate you dont understand the game of basketball and believe everything can be measured with stats.

I'm sure the year KT averaged 14/9 as CENTER he would have been ranked very highly, and as I remember he was an integral part of the worst frontcourt in the NBA.

Sorry, I'm looking for players with physical skills that can change the game. If we already had 3 or 4 I would estatic to have Nazr. Unfortunaly we only have 1, so I will move any asset that improves my over all talent.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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12/29/2004  2:10 PM
Posted by fishmike:

pleasedont throw stats in my face... unless its to demonstrate you dont understand the game of basketball and believe everything can be measured with stats.

I'm sure the year KT averaged 14/9 as CENTER he would have been ranked very highly, and as I remember he was an integral part of the worst frontcourt in the NBA.

Sorry, I'm looking for players with physical skills that can change the game. If we already had 3 or 4 I would estatic to have Nazr. Unfortunaly we only have 1, so I will move any asset that improves my over all talent.

Wow. So you are now implying that I don't know basketball. OK. That is your opinion. I am sure Dalembert will get us over the hump. Let's call up Zeke and tell him to pull the trigger. Basketball is a team sport. Detroit proved that last year.

I am not saying that I would not want Dalembert here. Just not at the expense of sending Nazr away. Right now I hold onto Nazr, Marbury and Ariza. Everyone else I am willing to trade.
NYKBocker
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12/29/2004  2:12 PM
Check that. I am willing to trade for the right piece.
fishmike
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12/29/2004  2:38 PM
you still dont answer my questions
Is Nazr an impact player
do other teams play differently when Nazr is one the court

I dont think he is and I dont think other teams do.

I have no doubt that the Knicks would take a step back if they traded Nazr for Dalembert. I also have no doubt that if the Knicks are to ever be among the elite teams they will need players that do that. Right now we have one. Sam could be another and could be relatively quickly. Nazr isnt and while he's a good productive player he never will be because he doesnt have the physical gifts Dalembert has.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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12/29/2004  2:50 PM
i don't think the Knicks would take a step back at all...substitute Sweetney playing more of a role in the low post & Dalembert adding his shotblocking & intimidation, i think the Knicks would be instantly better.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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