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Timmy season high 20 points......WTF?!?!
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EnySpree
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12/26/2004  5:45 PM
Is he finally gonna play hard? He had a decent game.....still lacks the rebounding and inside play the Knicks need but he had a efficient game.

F n' B
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crzymdups
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12/26/2004  7:08 PM
Tim averaged 8.4 ppg on 38% in November. He's up to 11.7 ppg on 46% for December with today's game, not a huge improvement, but an improvement. He's also scored in double digits in 5 out of the last 6 games (14ppg last 6), first time he's done that all season. Maybe he is truly over all his personal issues. It can only help the team (cough cough:: trade him while he's hot, Zeke:: cough cough), and they certainly need his scoring with Jamal out.
¿ △ ?
djsunyc
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12/26/2004  7:11 PM
awesome. according to this current trend, he'll be averaging 21ppg by march. give him the extension now, he's a franchise player.

F tim. if he produces great, if not, same story different game. i want him gone asap and open that spot up for ariza. and i don't care if he's not ready now, i'd rather win 30 games with ariza and sweetney starting than 42 with tim and kurt.
djsunyc
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12/26/2004  7:14 PM
btw, gerald wallace - you know, the guy tim was guarding most of the time, had 11 points and 14 REBOUNDS. what a joke tim is.

i can diss tim for the next 20 minutes BUT i will say one positive thing, he does take big shots, and he does make them. that's pretty good b/c alot of players can't.
Bobby
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12/26/2004  7:24 PM
lol......nice to see tt supporters out in force. wow....was it the walker rumour some kind of motivational factor
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
crzymdups
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12/26/2004  7:39 PM
look, Tim is a stupid player who doesn't understand how to move without the ball or rebound or even box out. But he's a decent defender, he can run the floor, and when he's on, he's a pretty unstoppable scorer. The problem with tim is, if he's not scoring, he's not doing **** to help the team.

The man had some very serious personal problems that he let affect him. If you watched the game today, Nazr and Allan and most of the bench was legitimately thrilled to see Tim hit that three pointer. This team is rooting for him, and it needs his value, whether as a scorer or as a trade chip, in order to move up. Hopefully, Trevor can get the majority of the run at SF next year, but right now, this team needs to play Tim for several different reasons, which should be obvious.
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Silverfuel
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12/26/2004  8:09 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

look, Tim is a stupid player who doesn't understand how to move without the ball or rebound or even box out. But he's a decent defender, he can run the floor, and when he's on, he's a pretty unstoppable scorer. The problem with tim is, if he's not scoring, he's not doing **** to help the team.
Amazing! Sounds exactly like Allan Houston to me.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
technomaster
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12/26/2004  11:56 PM
The biggest problem TT has had to deal with is the acquisition and emergence of Crawford as an offensive threat.

Let's face it, how many teams out there can support 3 big-time scorers? It's much more likely you have one or two stars and a supporting cast.

With Steph/Crawford scoring 40ppg, there isn't enough ball for Thomas to let the game come to him and find his niche. You have a starting backcourt that sets up shots for themselves, what else do you expect?

With Crawford out, I fully expect TT to return to last year's 14-16ppg-type player... who knows how long he'll be able to maintain this pace.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Killa4luv
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12/27/2004  1:26 AM
Posted by technomaster:

The biggest problem TT has had to deal with is the acquisition and emergence of Crawford as an offensive threat.

Let's face it, how many teams out there can support 3 big-time scorers? It's much more likely you have one or two stars and a supporting cast.

With Steph/Crawford scoring 40ppg, there isn't enough ball for Thomas to let the game come to him and find his niche. You have a starting backcourt that sets up shots for themselves, what else do you expect?

With Crawford out, I fully expect TT to return to last year's 14-16ppg-type player... who knows how long he'll be able to maintain this pace.

if this analysis is accurate then we should start Ariza at 3 and have tt be the sixth man off the bench and work with our second unit. all of this of course only makes sense if craw is playing which he isn't right now.
Rich
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12/27/2004  1:27 AM
I think TT's biggest problem is that he has been distracted by off the court problems and he has finally been able to clear his head.
raven
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12/27/2004  3:20 AM
Posted by technomaster:

The biggest problem TT has had to deal with is the acquisition and emergence of Crawford as an offensive threat.

Let's face it, how many teams out there can support 3 big-time scorers? It's much more likely you have one or two stars and a supporting cast.

With Steph/Crawford scoring 40ppg, there isn't enough ball for Thomas to let the game come to him and find his niche. You have a starting backcourt that sets up shots for themselves, what else do you expect?

With Crawford out, I fully expect TT to return to last year's 14-16ppg-type player... who knows how long he'll be able to maintain this pace.

this is exactly the "forest behind the tree" kind of stuff.

marb will have to adjust his game when our team will be healthy, and try to look for the others even more so that he doesn't tire too fast.

our scoring has increased, but adding a 20 ppg scorer is sure to have an influence on others socring averages. let me add that craw has a poor shoot selection (im happy we have him though), so he needs a lot of shots to score.

at the same time, houston was hurt, TT was lost in space... so he had to take those shots hadn't he ? ;-)
technomaster
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12/27/2004  4:07 AM
Rich, TT's personal woes are probably a factor, but when all of his personal crises were happening, all we were hearing from him via the press was how he's been training by boxing, is in the best shape of his life, and is ready to fight w/ KMart.

So here are my reasons for TT's poor start this year:
1) Crawford's take-charge/loose cannon style is taking the offense away from TT
2) TT starting the season OUT OF SHAPE-- yes, he might be stronger, but boxing skills/muscles probably don't correlate well to basketball shape. Perhaps he also gained too much muscle and lost some quickness.
3) Personal issues
4) Normal "career" Tim Thomas inconsistency
5) Penny/Ariza's excellent starts

Killa -- I think the Knicks have an interesting situation w/ Ariza. Yeah, I think he should start or at least play alongside Crawford (Marbs is on the floor for 40mpg, so he's there w/ both units) Tim Thomas should be on the same line as Houston--- they both would do well in a more methodically run offense. So if Houston's starting, TT should start. (same goes for Crawford/Ariza).

Raven -- Last season, TT was at his best after Houston stopped playing and KT's pinkie deteriorated. The Knicks basically told him that he was the man inside and that he had to produce-- he did well in that role.

The big difference this year is that Crawford controls the ball (shoots/dribbles/passes) much more than DerMarr/Shandon did. TT doesn't get his touches/decision making opportunities, nor has he been relied upon to shoulder any part of the offensive load.

Crawford's injury could be a blessing in disguise, at least in terms of getting Houston and Thomas more in the flow, and giving Wilkens an excuse to move Crawford to a 6th man role.

(This by no means is bashing Crawford--- but he is what he is... a Starks-like gunner-- but this style has been known to annoy teammates from time to time)
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Caseloads
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12/27/2004  8:53 AM
Posted by technomaster:

The biggest problem TT has had to deal with is the acquisition and emergence of Crawford as an offensive threat.

Let's face it, how many teams out there can support 3 big-time scorers? It's much more likely you have one or two stars and a supporting cast.

With Steph/Crawford scoring 40ppg, there isn't enough ball for Thomas to let the game come to him and find his niche. You have a starting backcourt that sets up shots for themselves, what else do you expect?

With Crawford out, I fully expect TT to return to last year's 14-16ppg-type player... who knows how long he'll be able to maintain this pace.
craw's scoring has nothing to do with 6-7 gerald wallace and every other SF outrebounding 6-10 TT by approximately double the rebounds from the SF spot every game.
diderotn
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12/27/2004  4:30 PM
I am baaaaacccccccck. My man TT is finally playing well again. I have said this all season long, this dude is a much better player as the season progresses. He is at his best by mid-season, he is a much more agressive player. I don't know if his off the court problems were the true reason behind his lack of production, but we shall find out if Crawff presence on the court wasn't also a contributor. Houston doesn't have to have the ball to operate, but Crawf does. As a result, that has reduced TT's chances at touching the ball. Let's how he does with HOuston at SG position, Marburry's game may suffer the most, because he has developed a chemistry with Crawf, but TT should get in the flow of things now with Crawff's absence.
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TMS
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12/27/2004  4:56 PM
lol, you're calling him "your man" now...the past few weeks you were admitting that it was time to get rid of his useless arse.

i say TT needs to be traded, but Isiah shouldn't rush to get rid of him for garbage...hopefully he'll increase his trade value somewhat w/improved play by season's end, so that Isiah can use him to get a player that can actually HELP this team going forward...Tim Thomas never was, & never WILL BE, the type of player that the fans of NY will grow fond of...he's simply lazy, not very intelligent as far as Hoops IQ goes, & he's got no heart...you can take all his talent & throw it in the garbage, because he's never going to be motivated enough to work hard enough to fulfill his potential...he's never had to, remember...he was given the big bucks anyway...why would anyone ever be motivated to work hard again if you've already been rewarded for underachievement?
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diderotn
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12/27/2004  5:05 PM
Yes, I know. I am just happy to see that he is beginning to play well again. As far as I am concerned, we can afford to trade him once his trade value has improved. I see a lot of potential in him, but I don't believe that he is the right type of player for this current Knicks. He is not agressive and demanding enough, and most of all, he doesn't play defense. We need guys that are fearless and are not thin skinned. a guy that will play both end of the court, especially with Marb, Crawf, and Houston in this team. If he can shoot the ball, be it, but most of all, we need an every night defensive presence on the court.

TT could be a short term asset, but eventually we will have to get rid of him.


Posted by TMS:

lol, you're calling him "your man" now...the past few weeks you were admitting that it was time to get rid of his useless arse.

i say TT needs to be traded, but Isiah shouldn't rush to get rid of him for garbage...hopefully he'll increase his trade value somewhat w/improved play by season's end, so that Isiah can use him to get a player that can actually HELP this team going forward...Tim Thomas never was, & never WILL BE, the type of player that the fans of NY will grow fond of...he's simply lazy, not very intelligent as far as Hoops IQ goes, & he's got no heart...you can take all his talent & throw it in the garbage, because he's never going to be motivated enough to work hard enough to fulfill his potential...he's never had to, remember...he was given the big bucks anyway...why would anyone ever be motivated to work hard again if you've already been rewarded for underachievement?
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Killa4luv
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12/27/2004  5:05 PM
I am not in least bit concerned about Marbs and Craws chemistry together. Craw is the type of player who can play in any ofensive scheme because he is a scorer who can shoot and take you off the dribble.

Marbury needs to get out of his funk. We should really see some alley-oops, we have TT, Ariza, and to a lesser extent Nazzy. I am not saying this for entertainment value alone either. Can you imagine how that effects how he is guarded? If you are scared to go up and around a pick because he might cut to the basket and catch a high pass in the paint or an alley-oop? It opens up more open shots for TT. Lets feature him and have him begin to play really well. Worst case scenario he is a better player who we have. What is better is if he becomes attractive to other teams and we can use him as part of a trade to get Curry, Dalembert, or Kwame in that order.
diderotn
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12/27/2004  5:30 PM
So far, Marburry has played really well. He has improved a lot as a leader and orchestrator, but as I have said all season long, he has failed miserably to turn TT into the player that he can be. TT is a Knucklehead, and I am aware of that, but Marburry has to use psychological techniques to get through him. He has to do a better job at delivering the ball to TT in position where all he has to do is dunk it or take it to the hoops. I know that he has to get Crawf, Kurt, Nazr and the rest of the gang, but TT has been neglected.


Posted by Killa4luv:

I am not in least bit concerned about Marbs and Craws chemistry together. Craw is the type of player who can play in any ofensive scheme because he is a scorer who can shoot and take you off the dribble.

Marbury needs to get out of his funk. We should really see some alley-oops, we have TT, Ariza, and to a lesser extent Nazzy. I am not saying this for entertainment value alone either. Can you imagine how that effects how he is guarded? If you are scared to go up and around a pick because he might cut to the basket and catch a high pass in the paint or an alley-oop? It opens up more open shots for TT. Lets feature him and have him begin to play really well. Worst case scenario he is a better player who we have. What is better is if he becomes attractive to other teams and we can use him as part of a trade to get Curry, Dalembert, or Kwame in that order.
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rvhoss
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12/27/2004  10:17 PM
We do not have to get rid of TT...he is one of the top 3 SF in the East (this year...artest is gone).

[Edited by - rvhoss on 12/27/2004 22:17:31]
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TMS
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12/28/2004  9:02 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

We do not have to get rid of TT...he is one of the top 3 SF in the East (this year...artest is gone).

[Edited by - rvhoss on 12/27/2004 22:17:31]

lol...1 week he's a human piece of garbage, & now after 2 games he's the #3 SF in the East...you guys are funny.

let's see...even w/o Artest, you have Lebron James, Richard Jefferson, Desmond Mason, Al Harrington, Grant Hill, Tayshaun Prince, Luol Deng, Jalen Rose & Donyell Marshall who play in the East who i consider to be better players...& who would you rather have, Andre Iguodala or TT?

TT doesn't even crack the top 10 SF's in the Eastern Conference anymore...i even fooled myself into thinking at one time last year that he was about on a par w/RJ & Rashard Lewis, but looking back now he doesn't belong in that class at all...he's about on a par w/Jarvis Hayes imho, only Hayes is a better rebounder & shooter, while TT may have a better post up game.
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