[ IMAGES: Images OFF turn on | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

CRAP! Another Chad/Knicks Insider article (12/21).....
Author Thread
martin
Posts: 69129
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/21/2004  3:34 PM
Knicks running to stand still
by Chad.

It was a year ago Wednesday that the Knicks fired Scott Layden, replacing him as president with possibly the only executive in the league who had a more tarnished rep – Isiah Thomas.

I'll never forget the stunned reaction I got from one prominent league executive just minutes before the hire was announced.

"He would have been the last human being on earth that I thought would've gotten that job," he told Insider. "That's the premier GM job in the NBA, the team is a mess, and the Knicks need someone with experience to get them through this. Isiah Thomas isn't that guy."

The Knicks were 10-18 when Thomas took over.

Since Thomas took the reins last Dec. 22, the Knicks have gone 42-40.

Since the arrival of Stephon Marbury, Thomas's grand jewel acquisition, the Knicks are 38-37, including 13-11 this season.

In that span, Isiah has traded away 11 players, released four, acquired 14 players and changed head coaches.

No one will ever accuse him of standing still.

While it's clear that Thomas has stopped the flood of losing in New York, one year later, Isiah is still defending himself to his peers and to Knicks season ticketholders.

"I will say to this line of questioning, to whoever those people are: What don't you like that we're doing?" Thomas told reporters on Monday. "Because we're younger, we're more athletic, we sit here with a first-round pick, we've got expiring contracts coming up next summer and I believe we're first in our division right now."

All true. But the Knicks have their fair share of problems, too.

# Under Isiah, the Knicks' already outrageous $88 million payroll has swelled to $103 million. The Blazers – with an $81 million payroll – are their closest competition. And it's going to stay that way for a while. The Knicks aren't scheduled to be under the cap until the 2008-09 season – assuming they don't sign anyone to a new contract. And that's highly unlikely.

# The team has traded away most of its young assets – including last year's first round pick – in an effort to put a veteran, championship-caliber team on the floor. Only three players, Jamal Crawford, Mike Sweetney and this year's second-round pick, Trevor Ariza, are under 25 years of age. Seven players on their roster are over 30. Overall, the Knicks sport the seventh-oldest team in the NBA.

# Three of the Knicks' highest-paid players – Penny Hardaway, Jerome Williams and Shandon Anderson (who was bought out for $22 million) – are no big longer contributors.

# The Knicks' highest-paid player, Allan Houston, is coming off knee surgery and his future remains unclear.

# The Knicks' roster remains pretty unbalanced. True to his roots, Isiah has stacked the backcourt with offensive firepower to the detriment of any real low-post game. Seventy percent of the shots the Knicks take are jump shots. Only one team, the Warriors, takes a higher percentage.

# Isiah has traded away all of his expiring contracts, hurting his ability to get a deal done this season. Next season, he'll be able to shop the expiring contracts of Hardaway and Tim Thomas. But is Isiah willing to be that patient?

# The Knicks can't keep pursuing players based solely on their marquee value. Isiah's public pursuit of Vince Carter was the most glaring example of a philosophy gone awry. The last thing a backcourt-heavy team like the Knicks needed was Carter. The fact that he was willing to give up big men to get him only makes his pursuit of him more ridiculous.

# Despite the 13-11 record, the team is just 2-7 against teams with a .500 record. They were swept out of the first round of the playoffs last season. While they might be winning the Atlantic right now, few expect them to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

# The Knicks lack players with serious playoff experience. Despite having a roster with the third-most experience of any team in the league, very few of the players he's added have any real playoff experience. His backcourt of Marbury and Crawford have a combined record of 3-15 in playoff games. Their starting small forward, Tim Thomas, has just one significant playoff run in his career. Their starting center, Nazr Mohammed, is 0-7 in his playoff career.

Still, Isiah remains optimistic. The Knicks have a curious buzz for a mediocre team. Ticket sales are up. The team is more watchable. Crawford, Ariza, and, to a lesser extent Sweetney, look like they have the potential to be good. Given Isiah's track record, the Knicks always appear to be on the verge of another blockbuster.

Looking back now, he said, "I wouldn't have done anything differently."

"I like our team right now; I'm not looking to move or do anything," Thomas said. "When I got here, we had to do a lot of things to get to where we are now. And people said it would take us five, six years to get to where we are now. But we got fortunate, we got lucky. As I sit here today, we have assets, we have draft picks, we've got young players and we're playing pretty good basketball."

Fair enough. But unless Isiah is happy with a .500 record and first-round playoff exits, something different has to happen. If it doesn't, that wave of buzz he's riding is going to break on the rocks.


Isiah's Moves
Survivors: Allan Houston, Michael Sweetney, Kurt Thomas

Traded: Michael Doleac, Howard Eisley, Othella Harrington, Maciej Lampe, Antonio McDyess, Dikembe Mutombo, Cezary Trybanski, Keith Van Horn, Charlie Ward, Clarence Weatherspoon, Frank Williams, draft rights to Milos Vujanic

Released: John Amaechi, Shandon Anderson, DerMarr Johnson, Slavko Vranes

Acquired: John Amaechi, Trevor Ariza, Vin Baker, Jamison Brewer, Jamal Crawford, Anfernee Hardaway, DerMarr Johnson, Stephon Marbury, Nazr Mohammed, Moochie Norris, Bruno Sundov, Tim Thomas, Cezary Trybanski, Jerome Williams
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
AUTOADVERT
MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK
Posts: 20319
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/15/2004
Member: #737
USA
12/21/2004  3:39 PM
GO SELL CARS CHAD FORD!!
Marbury is finally home at MSG!
franco12
Posts: 33271
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
12/21/2004  3:45 PM
When Isiah was announced as the new GM, I was really upset- I thought they could have done better, that Isiah had baggage (Toronto, Pacers & CBA bankruptacy).

But, given what he has had to work with, you have to be happy.

What Chad doesn't say is without Isiah's moves when would the Knicks have been under the cap and the fact is a lot of other teams aren't going to be under the cap soon either.

I guess its Chad that really lacks the patience- I see a Knicks team headed in a different dirrection- yes, only a few games over 500, but the direction is 'right'
MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK
Posts: 20319
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/15/2004
Member: #737
USA
12/21/2004  3:49 PM
Posted by franco12:

When Isiah was announced as the new GM, I was really upset- I thought they could have done better, that Isiah had baggage (Toronto, Pacers & CBA bankruptacy).

But, given what he has had to work with, you have to be happy.

What Chad doesn't say is without Isiah's moves when would the Knicks have been under the cap and the fact is a lot of other teams aren't going to be under the cap soon either.

I guess its Chad that really lacks the patience- I see a Knicks team headed in a different dirrection- yes, only a few games over 500, but the direction is 'right'

Dude... he's probably Layden with a Pen name
Marbury is finally home at MSG!
bernard
Posts: 20730
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/17/2003
Member: #475
12/21/2004  3:51 PM
Never has Chard declared himself a Knick hater more clearly. His arguments don't make sense or are just wrong (Jerome Williams isn't a contributor? Wonder of Philly would agree to that one?). We're old and overpaid? Maybe, but less than than pre-IT.

Guy pisses me off. Can't help it.
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
12/21/2004  3:56 PM
I don't get this guy. He uses Isiah's pursuit of Vince Carter as a point against him:

"Isiah's public pursuit of Vince Carter was the most glaring example of a philosophy gone awry. The last thing a backcourt-heavy team like the Knicks needed was Carter. The fact that he was willing to give up big men to get him only makes his pursuit of him more ridiculous."

Last I checked we didn't trade any big men for VC. How can that possibly be used as a point against Isiah?
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
12/21/2004  3:58 PM
what a moron.

Jerome Williams isn't a contributor? Nor was Penny when healthy? He clearly hasn't watched a Knicks game all season, they were the first two guys off the bench most nights.

I love how he picks on the Knicks for not being able to find a superstar bigman, but how many teams have one of those? This guy knows nothing about basketball and was preaching Lampe and Pavel Podkozline as top 5 picks - in a year where WADE went 5th! He's an idiot. I highly recommend cancelling an Insider subscription if he's the reason you have it.
¿ △ ?
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
12/21/2004  4:00 PM
Posted by eViL:

I don't get this guy. He uses Isiah's pursuit of Vince Carter as a point against him:

"Isiah's public pursuit of Vince Carter was the most glaring example of a philosophy gone awry. The last thing a backcourt-heavy team like the Knicks needed was Carter. The fact that he was willing to give up big men to get him only makes his pursuit of him more ridiculous."

Last I checked we didn't trade any big men for VC. How can that possibly be used as a point against Isiah?

Yeah, seriously. And, gee whiz Chad, it's not like a rumor has ever been made up about the Knicks, right? How about judging Isiah on what he's done. The word I heard about that trade anyway was that when Toronto asked for Jerome and Kurt, Isiah hung up the phone.

Apparently, Toronto didn't realize that Jerome was an overpaid waster of space who isn't even a contributor anymore. How does this idiot have a job?
¿ △ ?
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/21/2004  4:04 PM
# The team has traded away most of its young assets – including last year's first round pick – in an effort to put a veteran, championship-caliber team on the floor. Only three players, Jamal Crawford, Mike Sweetney and this year's second-round pick, Trevor Ariza, are under 25 years of age. Seven players on their roster are over 30. Overall, the Knicks sport the seventh-oldest team in the NBA

um, we still have our 1st round pick this year, & Ariza & Jamal account for 2 young tradeable assets that the Knicks DIDN'T have last year...nice try Chad.
# Three of the Knicks' highest-paid players – Penny Hardaway, Jerome Williams and Shandon Anderson (who was bought out for $22 million) – are no big longer contributors.

riiiight...JYD makes very little impact on a game...he's strictly a garbage time player, huh Chad? putz!
# The Knicks' highest-paid player, Allan Houston, is coming off knee surgery and his future remains unclear.

looks ok to me Chad...maybe you're not watching the games i am.
# The Knicks' roster remains pretty unbalanced. True to his roots, Isiah has stacked the backcourt with offensive firepower to the detriment of any real low-post game. Seventy percent of the shots the Knicks take are jump shots. Only one team, the Warriors, takes a higher percentage.

yet you fail to cite how Isiah traded for Nazr Mohammed who's been 1 of the best frontcourt players in the Eastern Conference this year.
# Isiah has traded away all of his expiring contracts, hurting his ability to get a deal done this season. Next season, he'll be able to shop the expiring contracts of Hardaway and Tim Thomas. But is Isiah willing to be that patient?

excuse me if i'm wrong, but isn't the point of having tradeable assets that you're supposed to USE them to get someone like Jamal Crawford? a young, up & coming star player w/great upside?
# The Knicks can't keep pursuing players based solely on their marquee value. Isiah's public pursuit of Vince Carter was the most glaring example of a philosophy gone awry. The last thing a backcourt-heavy team like the Knicks needed was Carter. The fact that he was willing to give up big men to get him only makes his pursuit of him more ridiculous.

according to reports on MSG Sportsdesk, Isiah turned down TOR's request for KT, JYD & Sweetney in that deal...if that's the case, Chad's got his facts wrong on this one too.
# Despite the 13-11 record, the team is just 2-7 against teams with a .500 record. They were swept out of the first round of the playoffs last season. While they might be winning the Atlantic right now, few expect them to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

whereas a 13-12 Denver team is on the road to winning a championship, right Chad?
# The Knicks lack players with serious playoff experience. Despite having a roster with the third-most experience of any team in the league, very few of the players he's added have any real playoff experience. His backcourt of Marbury and Crawford have a combined record of 3-15 in playoff games. Their starting small forward, Tim Thomas, has just one significant playoff run in his career. Their starting center, Nazr Mohammed, is 0-7 in his playoff career.

i see...so i guess Allan Houston (NBA Finals w/the Knicks), Penny Hardaway (NBA Finals w/the Magic), Kurt Thomas (NBA Finals w/the Knicks) have no real playoff experience.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
Posts: 53199
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/21/2004  4:53 PM
TMS has a good retort... no need to be redundant. Just to add to JYD "not contributing" before Penny got hurt and Houston returned Penny was VERY valuable off the bench and a key contributor.

Funny how he only addresses the under 25 age group, despite the fact that Ward, Eisley, Spoon, Harrington, Deke were all replaced by younger guys.

Lampe was a legit prospect, no doubt. Frank Williams I liked but guys like that are pretty easy to come by and at this point its pretty clear Vujanic isnt playing here.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
Posts: 68922
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/21/2004  4:56 PM
"Still, Isiah remains optimistic. The Knicks have a curious buzz for a mediocre team. Ticket sales are up. The team is more watchable. Crawford, Ariza, and, to a lesser extent Sweetney, look like they have the potential to be good. Given Isiah's track record, the Knicks always appear to be on the verge of another blockbuster."

"The Curious Buzz"........IT lives here. It breeds here on this site.

Ok, Im not trying to be a pain in the ass, just objective.

IM not hating here fellas, but lets try this.

We are not so young. We are 21% higher in payroll than the 2nd highest payroll! We are YOUNGER (man wuz we old) and more athletic (man wuz we old), but if your measuring in terms of time, Isiah has a great job in one year of creating a team that is interesting and more watchable.

But.........What the Chad is saying is, other than that "Buzz", and viewership is up 40%!, does the team warrant its salary, have big upside, and win a championship with this core? The answer I dare to say is NO!

We jacked about Azira and Sweets, but thats the next generation. Will there be a next generation? Will Isiah keep trading?

We have to pause and give thanks we did not get Vince or Damp, but he sure as hell did try!

He did not give away the store, so that is a very good thing!

Before you jump on my ass, just consider the big picture. There is some fairness in his critique of Isiah.

Of course things are better now, but we are paying some serious jack for this team, and lets face it, if Nazr and KT are the big men, we ain't going anywhere serious.

I like the team, I will root for them, but sometimes when we look in the mirror at this team, there are some big flaws, and we have to recognize them.

Thus the new signiture........





teslawlo
Posts: 21482
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/13/2004
Member: #699
USA
12/21/2004  5:29 PM
I guess TT and Penny are considered big men and/or the knicks' frontline according to chad.
give it a few years, if IT or some other more conservative GM were hired, it doesn't matter; either way, we would have taken at least a few years to get anywhere... Isiah's way of doing things just brings us an exciting team while rebuilding...
http://allknicks.com
fishmike
Posts: 53199
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/21/2004  5:30 PM
Nalod... what is the big picture? I get the feeling like Chad and some of these beat reporters think that because Isiah prety much turned over the whole roster that the Knicks should be competing for the title this year. Why is that fair? I get the impression that because Isiah was willing to add payroll that we should be a title team and thats just silly to me. The ratings and viewer increase only proves that Isiah has made good business calls so far and that the added payroll is paying for itself.

The "buzz" is because we have some things around here we havent had in at least 10 years. We have recent draft picks playing and contributing. We have a guy in Crawford that at 24 is on the UPSIDE of his career, not the downside like everyone else (short maybe of Camby and Houston) aquired in the last 10 years.

What can ANY GM accomplish in one year when they inherit a losing team with an impossible payroll?

To me THATS the big picture. The fact that we are younger, have draft picks and young guys with upside IN the rotation and contributing. We are moving closer to losing some dead wood in a year and a half AND we are winning and playoff bound. Houston and Shandon pretty much guarenteed no cap space for 3-4 years, so we accomplished what you look to in rebuilding and we are winning.

-add young guys with upside to your rotation
-sign a young FA on the verge of breaking out
-stockpile some flexible contract (moochie, baker, nazr, penny and tt all expire after next year)

Looks like an OK "BIG PICTURE" to me for our GMs first year
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
12/21/2004  5:37 PM
WTF does he expect the knicks to be 1 year after the man took over!?! They went from 8 games under .500 to 2 games over. And its not like they are all old, there is a strong youth movement within the ranks.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Nalod
Posts: 68922
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/21/2004  5:55 PM
I am happy with the progress! I always say if it happens it will be in like 2-3 years! I don't want short term trades to hype the buzz.

But will Isiah settle for anything less than a ring? Given his chase of Vince and Damp, would he be tempted?

I want the real deal!

What is not fair in chads article is just how pathetic we would be. We might have had a nice draft pick, but it would be ugly.

I recognize this team is a business more than many fans. That is what scares me at times. That is why I am suspect!
MaTT4281
Posts: 33880
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #538
USA
12/21/2004  5:57 PM
The man doesn't know what he's talking about. It's like in school, when you had a book report and you didn't read the book. You try to sound like you know all about it, when in reality, you have no idea.

What the hell does Chad expect anyone to do in one year's time? We were a 37-45 team, and 10-18 when he took over. The fact that we now have a 13-11 team, with Houston just coming back says alot.

How long did it take for people on this board to go through point by point and prove him wrong?
I won't say anything else against Chad. The man clearly has a mental problem, and I will give him my full support to go get some help. In the mean time, I am banning myself from reading any more of his articles.
martin
Posts: 69129
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/21/2004  6:24 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I recognize this team is a business more than many fans. That is what scares me at times. That is why I am suspect!

Normally I would agree with the Dolan/NYKs as a business rather than as a sports team trying to win a championship, but with Isiah at the helm, it's all about championship.

Tactically, some of the moves - and I am not talking just about the trade moved - were done to fill the seats, but knowing Isiah as a player, it's all about the CHAMPIONSHIP. He lives and eats and breathes it.

It took one summer of Brown and Isiah to convert Marb, now it will take just a bit more to get past the second round.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
daddynel
Posts: 21222
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 12/2/2003
Member: #505
12/21/2004  7:57 PM
MaTT, i could'nt have said it better myself. i wonder if this guy works for different papers, and pretty much writes negativity about different sports teams. this week was our turn.
  
or, maybe he gets his 411 from this "prominent league executive" that told him isiah was the last human being he would think would get that job. read that veeery carefully and you'll see how someone (particularly a journalist) can twist those words around. might i add he does that quite well. anyway, the bottom line is that isiah has taken a sorry team from BELOW mediocredy to a team that's at least fun to watch, keeps people coming to the garden, have a real future w/youth, and under zeke's reign will soon be a contender.
  
btw guys, why would he add shandon anderson to the list of players that are not "big contributers"? hmmm. i guess it adds to that whole negative vibe thing that's obviously his style when he's talking nyk basketball.
  
yo chad, don't hate the player, hate the game bitch!
CRAP! Another Chad/Knicks Insider article (12/21).....

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy