all those years of layden really did a number on me.
i can't help but think some stupid deal is going to go down.

so far i've trusted isiah and he hasn't really done anything to make me lose faith but if he's really that hard for vince, i hope none of our chips are moved (crawford, sweetney, nazr). and i would be upset if h20 was moved as well.

i noticed Ariza & Sweetney both didn't play last night...maybe a deal is imminent...who knows.

isiah has an eye for talent and developing talent. he's done it time and time again. amazingly, he said the deal last year was b/c of nazr and not tim. we all thought he was nuts but look at it now. so i have confidence in isiah but i, as a fan, am attached to sweetney and h20 and don't like the idea of trading nazr for vince b/c nazr could be used in a deal for a big. i loved the crawford move and i don't think he's going anywhere. that's isiah's backcourt. maybe it's a penny + kurt + pick deal for vince instead, if toronto is desperate enough to move him.

vince is soft. but i still think he's good. WAY better than tim and i'm hoping, as everybody else will, that the change of scenery is all he needs.

tim is messing this all up. if he came to play this season, none of the bull**** would be going on.

Posted by djsunyc:

good, then we can stop with all this vince crap...

amen to that.

If we don't get VC I bet money you guys regret it.

I agreee. I wouldn't give up Sweetney and Ariza for him, but if we can keep our young guys and all we have to do is take back Rose and/or A. Williams, I'd gladly do a Vince deal. Don't worry about salaries, Fish: Vince's jersey sales alone will pay for Rose's salary!

I have ZERO interest in Vince. Isiah wouldn't want him, just to use him as an extra trade piece. He would use him, b/c he thinks Vince would be part of a championship team. But I think vince wont even help us into the 2nd round. He's a very selfish player, his play is going down. And don't even tell me how he's bad, b/c his coach lost favor. If he didn't stop yapping and just played hard instead, and talked privately, then it would be better. Vince is a bad influence. Just as bad as Jalen. I want no part in him. I'd rather we go after Artest, who CAN lead us into extra rounds, in years after this year.

Posted by daddynel:

Posted by Allanfan20:

I have ZERO interest in Vince. Isiah wouldn't want him, just to use him as an extra trade piece. He would use him, b/c he thinks Vince would be part of a championship team. But I think vince wont even help us into the 2nd round. He's a very selfish player, his play is going down. And don't even tell me how he's bad, b/c his coach lost favor. If he didn't stop yapping and just played hard instead, and talked privately, then it would be better. Vince is a bad influence. Just as bad as Jalen. I want no part in him. I'd rather we go after Artest, who CAN lead us into extra rounds, in years after this year.

i see your arguement, but who's to say that he has'nt tried to talk it over in private? now if he avg's about 4ast per game that does'nt seem too sellfish to me for the sf spot. he may be at crunch time because he's a playmaker. that we can't take from him. now jalen i can't and won't defend. i don't like his contract and we can't use his style of play.

now as for ron artest, please let it go. not only can we not get him, but even if we did, when would he play again, and who's to say we can control the queensbridge nut.

Vince has tried to be traded many times. Like it or not, most superstars are able to be traded if they demand a trade now. He probably hates playing for the Craptors. I don't blame him. It's hard to believe a motivated Vince can't play the same way he did just one season ago.

Posted by Allanfan20:

The point is this. He has made it public and now, his quality of play has decreased majorly. He is still a chucker. We already have one named Jamal, and I think he's having a much better season than Vince so far. And even if he does average 4 assists a game, we don't need his style of play. We already have 2 playmakers in Jamal and Stephon. We already have reliable scores. So what's the obsession with Vince. We need DEFENSE in any form or shape. Vince is a crappy defender. He would not lead to many more wins. I am more interested in WOODS than Vince.

Vince is not a great defender, but he's a far better defender than TT or Houston when motivated (and of course he would be in NY)

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Allanfan20:

The point is this. He has made it public and now, his quality of play has decreased majorly. He is still a chucker. We already have one named Jamal, and I think he's having a much better season than Vince so far. And even if he does average 4 assists a game, we don't need his style of play. We already have 2 playmakers in Jamal and Stephon. We already have reliable scores. So what's the obsession with Vince. We need DEFENSE in any form or shape. Vince is a crappy defender. He would not lead to many more wins. I am more interested in WOODS than Vince.

Vince is not a great defender, but he's a far better defender than TT or Houston when motivated (and of course he would be in NY)

Please. As we all know, basketball is a game of HABITS. Maybe he'll try hard his first couple of games, just like Marbury did on defense when he came, but then, he'll go back to his old self. And as we all know, NOBODY here plays defense except Kurt, and it seems to be accepted within' the team. So if you can find a way to motivate Vince to play defense every game, let us all know.

What do you really think Vince would do for this team. Excite the crowd? Yes. Get some dunks? Yes. Make teammates better? Probably not really. He gets 4 assists, but that doesn't impress me. For every assist by Vince are 2 bad shots by Vince. Would he improve the defense? NO. Would he give us shotblocking? NO. He's a scorer. We have many scorers. You can't continue stocking in one area while there are weaker areas not improving or getting worse.

What's the obsession for Vince? Really? Just b/c he wants to come to NY and the rumors are in the papers? There are probably players available that would help 10X more, that aren't making things public.

Say no to Vince like no to drugs.