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Trading Muhamed is not smart.......
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diderotn
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12/11/2004  6:00 PM
I know that Carter is an excellent talent, but knowing what I know now about Muhamed, I wouldn't want to include him in any trade ideas just to get Carter. This dude has been on a tear, and most of all, he is not the reason why we are so bad defensively. Kurt Thomas is the one that we must move out of town. Isiah! I know that you are a very smart cat, Nazr is the best player that we have right now, please don't trade him. Trade Kurt.
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BRIGGS
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12/11/2004  6:22 PM
i agree with you there. i wouldnt trade nazr right now, pretty much period. i dont see a deal where i would give him up. no team is going to give you an upper echlon player, and kt right now IMHO is playing WAY better than guys like jamal magliore who was an all star.

this V Carter stuff, I hope it is a joke. I dont see one player i could make a case to trade for vince carter. hes not the same player--hes a BIG injury waiting to happen and he has 4 years on his contract.
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MaTT4281
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12/11/2004  6:26 PM
Nazr is the best player that we have right now

Hey, Nazr has won me over this season, and I'm as much of a fan of him then anyone, but how can you say Nazr is our best player and keep a straight face?
He is a very nice option on the paint, but without Stephon driving and force feeding him passes, he doesn't look nearly as good as he does this season.

As for Kurt, I'm by no means against trading him, but it's not a priority. We aren't going to get better just by moving him. We do need a low post defender, and if we can get one with TT or Penny's contracts, I really don't mind bringing Kurt off the bench, as say maybe a backup C. However, if they want Kurt in the deal, I'll help him pack.
s3231
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12/11/2004  6:35 PM
I agree with you about Vince BRIGGS, had it been the Vince 4 or 5 years ago that was averaging over 25 ppg along with 6 rpg, I would definitely trade for him. However, Vince has not been the same player since then. Even last year when he played over 70 games, Vince was still not the same superstar he was in his first 3 seasons in the NBA. His injuries have clearly affected his game and he could be this generation's version of Penny Hardaway.

As for Nazr, I definitely wouldn't trade him right now unless a great deal came along, but that won't happen. Our best option is to hope that Nazr can continue his excellent play for the rest of the season and then if we want to trade him, we can do it in the offseason when his trade value is even higher because of the expiring contract. Kurt is a player I wouldn't mind moving if a decent deal came along. Chicago and Philly are both teams that would probably have interest in Kurt so I would love to see if we can find a way to nab either Curry or Dalembert.
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diderotn
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12/11/2004  6:46 PM
At this point, I wouldn't trade Nazr for Curry nor Dalembert. Nazr is in a groove with Marburry and the rest of the guys, we don't need to mess around with that chemistry right now. Kurt, on the other hand, will not get better. We should consider trading him before we even mention any other name besides Moochie. Dalember and Curry have been in the league and have played a lot of minutes and they both have nothing to prove for it, can we say the same for Nazr? no.
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MaTT4281
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12/11/2004  6:53 PM
Dalember and Curry have been in the league and have played a lot of minutes and they both have nothing to prove for it, can we say the same for Nazr? no.
I wasn't aware we could say that for Sammy. This is his thrid year in the league. He's only 23! Last year, his second year, in 27 mpg, he averaged 8 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 2.3 bpg!
I am praying we can land him in NY. I would probably prefer him over Nazr, but if we can get him and keep Nazr, that's great.
martin
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12/11/2004  6:58 PM
Posted by diderotn:

At this point, I wouldn't trade Nazr for Curry nor Dalembert. Nazr is in a groove with Marburry and the rest of the guys, we don't need to mess around with that chemistry right now. Kurt, on the other hand, will not get better. We should consider trading him before we even mention any other name besides Moochie. Dalember and Curry have been in the league and have played a lot of minutes and they both have nothing to prove for it, can we say the same for Nazr? no.

Nazr has been in the league for 5+ years and this is the first he has shown anything. He has played GREAT, but the upside of Curry and Dalembert are probably better.

For young guys, there are many factors that play into how they perform. Talent, effort, coaching, teammates, etc. This year Nazr has really maxed out on 3 of the 4. Put Curry in the same position as Nazr has had this year, and I would say that he would probably be better than Nazr.
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diderotn
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12/11/2004  7:17 PM
To achieve what Nazr has achieved so far takes a lot of obedience, determination, desire. None of the other guys that you have mentioned above has any of that. They all think that they are stars and failed to do what has been asking of them to do. Contrary to those other guys, Nazr was never considered a starter until he joined our team, and look at his production.... One can be talented, but he has the drive, desire, and obedience to get better, all that talent is nothing but potential. Look at TT, he is the perfect example.
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Marv
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12/11/2004  7:27 PM
Posted by diderotn:

To achieve what Nazr has achieved so far takes a lot of obedience, determination, desire. None of the other guys that you have mentioned above has any of that. They all think that they are stars and failed to do what has been asking of them to do. Contrary to those other guys, Nazr was never considered a starter until he joined our team, and look at his production.... One can be talented, but he has the drive, desire, and obedience to get better, all that talent is nothing but potential. Look at TT, he is the perfect example.

One thing for certain is that TT is mad disobedient!!
fishmike
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12/11/2004  7:48 PM
sorry, but NAzr for Dalembert is no brainer. Using Nazr to get a guy like Kwame or Dalembert is why we got him in the first place. The reason he's been on a tear is he's playing with 2 guards that get him the ball in easy position to score.

No dont get me wrong... Nazr is a good player, and getting better. He's a legit center that can run on the break and fill the lane. He's an awesome dunker, but he's 27 and doesnt have Dalembert's upside by a long shot. Dalembert could be a Ratliff type player that gives you 15/12/4. Thats off the charts... and he's already shown he can do that for an extended period of time. At 22... the only problem is we probably have no way to get him, but if Phili were to byte on Nazr/Ariza for Dalembert/Ollie you do that in a NY minute
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djsunyc
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12/11/2004  11:14 PM
Posted by fishmike:

sorry, but NAzr for Dalembert is no brainer. Using Nazr to get a guy like Kwame or Dalembert is why we got him in the first place. The reason he's been on a tear is he's playing with 2 guards that get him the ball in easy position to score.

No dont get me wrong... Nazr is a good player, and getting better. He's a legit center that can run on the break and fill the lane. He's an awesome dunker, but he's 27 and doesnt have Dalembert's upside by a long shot. Dalembert could be a Ratliff type player that gives you 15/12/4. Thats off the charts... and he's already shown he can do that for an extended period of time. At 22... the only problem is we probably have no way to get him, but if Phili were to byte on Nazr/Ariza for Dalembert/Ollie you do that in a NY minute

agreed - dalembert is AWESOME. nazr is real good but dalembert helps us where nazr doesn't, defense and block shots while still getting the boards and points. i would move pretty much anybody on the team to get him (even sweetney).
fishmike
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12/11/2004  11:35 PM
here's why trading Nazr is smart right now. He's 27 and playing at a level he's NEVER played at before. His contract is very attractive and for once the Knick would be trading a player who's value is peak.

Unless you think Nazr is part of a championship nucleus.. than thats a different story. I still think we need too much. Sorry, but someone like Dalembert or Kwame or even Curry is just too good to pass up one. I dont even like Curry, but I know he's not getting pushed around by Brandon Haywood.
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Killa4luv
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12/12/2004  2:11 AM
Posted by fishmike:

here's why trading Nazr is smart right now. He's 27 and playing at a level he's NEVER played at before. His contract is very attractive and for once the Knick would be trading a player who's value is peak.

Unless you think Nazr is part of a championship nucleus.. than thats a different story. I still think we need too much. Sorry, but someone like Dalembert or Kwame or even Curry is just too good to pass up one. I dont even like Curry, but I know he's not getting pushed around by Brandon Haywood.

Wow now thats talking. I like Brendan Haywood and Nene as well. I really like what Nazr is doing though. If we were able to get one of those guys with KT and Ariza we could run Nazzy at the 4 and 5!!! That would be beautiful.

But I agree that we should not trade Nazzy for anyone who is not 7 feet and serious. Trading him for vince will make us worse on the boards and D. Our overall deoth at the PF/C will suck and Vinny B will be seeing more time than i care for him to have

[Edited by - killa4luv on 12/12/2004 02:16:10]
diderotn
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12/12/2004  10:44 AM
Some of you are insane. I am so glad that you guys have nothing to do with who we trade. How in the world would anyone even consider trading Ariza or Sweetney together with Nazr? These three guys are our youth foundation, and Isiah is not dumb enough to do that. I can understand trading Kurt whom is an old gizzard, but not our youths.
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martin
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12/12/2004  11:09 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Some of you are insane. I am so glad that you guys have nothing to do with who we trade. How in the world would anyone even consider trading Ariza or Sweetney together with Nazr? These three guys are our youth foundation, and Isiah is not dumb enough to do that. I can understand trading Kurt whom is an old gizzard, but not our youths.

It's the same reason Layden had the phone hung up on him over and over again. You have to give up talent to get talent. Put this into perspective: Nazr has played GREAT for the Knicks. THIS YEAR. previous to this, nothing.

I'll through a few more names out there that had EXACT runs at the center position for their teams: Jerome James, Calvin Booth, Michael Olowokandi, John Amaechi. Where are these guys today? Generally speaking, doing nothing.
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diderotn
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12/12/2004  11:16 AM
Exactly, just as they started to learn the game, developed a little chemistry with their backcourt, they have either gotten too griddy or their respective teams looked to capitalize from their success. All of the guys that you have mentioned, really have not show the passion and obedience that my man Nazr have so far. Can't you see, Nazr is just now developing some confidence in his game. There is no telling how far this guy can go.
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martin
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12/12/2004  11:45 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Exactly, just as they started to learn the game, developed a little chemistry with their backcourt, they have either gotten too griddy or their respective teams looked to capitalize from their success. All of the guys that you have mentioned, really have not show the passion and obedience that my man Nazr have so far. Can't you see, Nazr is just now developing some confidence in his game. There is no telling how far this guy can go.

Here is one weird thing: Aguire has raved about Sweets and how he thinks he will be an all-star one day. Nada for Nazr.
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Killa4luv
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12/12/2004  1:50 PM
I would be very hesitant to trade sweets and I would not ever trade sweets and Nazzy together unless we got back Shaq. I would trade Nazzy in a deal for dalembert, but Sweets has got way too much upside. I like Sweets much better than Ariza although I like Ariza alot as well. I would include Ariza in a trade that made sense.
diderotn
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12/12/2004  3:26 PM
I am sorry, I would not trade neither of the three, because we need to keep these three guys around to soldify our future. Ariza could be even better than Vince if he continues to work on his shooting. He is already a much better defender. Sweetney in my opinion is a better upgrade over Kurt. I am still convince that Sweetney could put up the same if not better numbers than what Kurt has done so far this season. With Sweetney on the court our perimeter players appear better defensively, because Sweetney occupies a lot of space when he is under the basket.....Nazr should be given the chance to continue to develop. As for the fan that claimed that Agwire have said that Sweetney will be the man, Agwire and Williams have also said that sky is the limit for Nazr.


Posted by Killa4luv:

I would be very hesitant to trade sweets and I would not ever trade sweets and Nazzy together unless we got back Shaq. I would trade Nazzy in a deal for dalembert, but Sweets has got way too much upside. I like Sweets much better than Ariza although I like Ariza alot as well. I would include Ariza in a trade that made sense.
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TMS
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12/13/2004  3:34 PM
i trade Sweetney & Nazr BOTH if i can get Dalembert...he's the type of player that can impact a game on his rebounding & defense alone...i trade 1 or the other along w/a future pick if i can get Kwame, Curry or Nené because all 3 have bigger upsides than either Nazr or Sweetney do imho.

some of you value Sweetney way higher than i think he deserves...he's still young & has potential to get better, but i just don't think he'll ever be a star player whereas any of those other guys have big potential to becoming very soon w/the right development.
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