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We made a mistake in 03'
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rain
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12/9/2004  5:04 PM
We made a mistake and yes, Hindsight is always 20-20. The draft in 03' had no "can't miss prospects" where we picked. We were left to pick amongst wings and power-forwards Sweetney, Jeffries, Jarvis Hayes, Michael Pietrus and Nick Collison. Right now, admittedly as the roller-coaster of player performance goes up and down, it seems we made a mistake.

I live in Seattle, was raised in NY during the Starks, Ewing, and Oakley years. Right now I'm lucky to be able to see great basketball every night with this current Sonic team. A team that plays as a team, plays hard, and can bomb teams off the floor right now. It looks alot like the teams playing in Athens over the summer. Last year this wasn't the case, they spent some time developing players.. some injuries, some bad fits at C, and some rookieitis. This year a couple of players were shipped out, and the Sonics got Danny Fortson for nothing. Luke Ridnour spent the whole summer weight training with, being mentored by John Stockton. Nick Collison's shoulders healed from surgery to correct a college/congenital injury. Rashard Lewis shot thousands of jump shots. Reggie Evans worked on his post moves and developed some foot work. Antonio Daniels is versatile, good defensively, and is a great third guard for a three guard rotation. The Sonic resurgence came with Ray Allen's superstar shining and the above developements.

Watching the past three Sonic games.. Ridnour is very good. He is solid defensively with some really impressive flashes, a great ball handler, moves the ball quickly, can shoot the three, and his summer has netted much better explosion to the hole. From last year, to this year, he is the big difference along with Fortson. Collison, IMO, is where we made our mistake. At 6'10-6'11 he can guard the 5, pass, shoot, get to the line.. and has under-appreciated athleticism. The guy know's how to win. If he stays healthy, IMO, he will turn out to be much better than Sweetney. That said, the Sonics, reportedly would have taken Mike over Nick.

I've watched three Knick games in three weeks and it seems Mike is taking steps backward. The comparisons to Zach Randolph don't fit because Mike is slow and cannot handle the ball. His vertical leap is similar Tractor Traylor's. I didn't see him much at the end of last year, so if he's reverting, let me know. He shows some power because of his build, but physically I don't think he can be anything special.

[Edited by - rain on 12/09/2004 17:07:26]

[Edited by - rain on 12/09/2004 17:09:45]
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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12/9/2004  5:18 PM
Sweets looked beaten last nite. His body language was bad after a mistake. He does not appear to have confidence.

The flashes are their, but its still early.

The sonics are playing some great ball and fun to watch.

Think they re-up Ray Ray? He looked like the man last nite!

Good take!

Perhaps we are into much wishful thinking with our Sweetney?
Stevo718
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12/9/2004  5:29 PM
Yeah I think you are right in most aspects of your assesment of Sweetney, he has no explosiveness off his feet and I don't see anything special from him. He has no lateral movement either.

Let's say he lost 25 lbs and got down to 250 I see a PF that could get to the line pretty often and block a few shots here and there and grab a few boards, not that he doesn't do some of that now. But he is too undersized and does not have the talent or skill of Brand or Barkley.

I have not seen anything spectacular from him and if i could trade him as a package for a C, I would in a second. Isiah wants a "more athletic" team, and it makes me wonder why he is so high on Sweets when he is not athletic. For once in the last 5 years I want true position players at their true positions.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.
teslawlo
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12/9/2004  5:34 PM
I have no idea what you have seen of Collison (maybe it's because I have seen like 1 sonics game this year) to be so impressive with him. He's a bit taller, yes. Does he look less fatter than sweetney? Yes, something to do with natural build though.

Collison is averaging 3.4 points, 3.4 boards on 41% shooting and 58% FT shooting. It's good activity for just 12 minutes, but it's not enough. He's basically going through his rookie year again. Nick's the type of guy who does not have much upside. You know you're getting a perennial winner who will defend and score on occasion. How is that much better than sweets? There are plenty of people who possess more natural ability than mike. There are plenty of the aforementioned people who are in the CBA or NBDL right now. A few more inches and shoulders operated on in a major surgery don't help us that much.
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rain
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12/9/2004  6:08 PM
Posted by teslawlo:

I have no idea what you have seen of Collison (maybe it's because I have seen like 1 sonics game this year) to be so impressive with him. He's a bit taller, yes. Does he look less fatter than sweetney? Yes, something to do with natural build though.

Collison is averaging 3.4 points, 3.4 boards on 41% shooting and 58% FT shooting. It's good activity for just 12 minutes, but it's not enough. He's basically going through his rookie year again. Nick's the type of guy who does not have much upside. You know you're getting a perennial winner who will defend and score on occasion. How is that much better than sweets? There are plenty of people who possess more natural ability than mike. There are plenty of the aforementioned people who are in the CBA or NBDL right now. A few more inches and shoulders operated on in a major surgery don't help us that much.

Statistically, I understand your position. Watching him guard Duncan last night, he is very good defensively. His game is starting to come together now. Nick is pretty lithe, very different build than Sweetney's. When he gets stronger, he will be way more effective. Where he get's the nod over Mike is truly understanding the team game (he's a coach's son), moving the ball on offense (similar to luke walton), and is capable of shooting from the outside. Sweetney gets the edge in the low post rebounding the ball. Mike needs to work in the gym more to develop.
BRIGGS
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12/9/2004  6:11 PM
Posted by Stevo718:

Yeah I think you are right in most aspects of your assesment of Sweetney, he has no explosiveness off his feet and I don't see anything special from him. He has no lateral movement either.

Let's say he lost 25 lbs and got down to 250 I see a PF that could get to the line pretty often and block a few shots here and there and grab a few boards, not that he doesn't do some of that now. But he is too undersized and does not have the talent or skill of Brand or Barkley.

I have not seen anything spectacular from him and if i could trade him as a package for a C, I would in a second. Isiah wants a "more athletic" team, and it makes me wonder why he is so high on Sweets when he is not athletic. For once in the last 5 years I want true position players at their true positions.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.



You're absolutley right, 100% that MS NEEDS to lose 25 pounds down to 250. He's got a lot of skill, he's a hard worker with top notch character. He needs that extra weight loss to increase agaility and make up for size defeciencies. That being said, if there is a BIG PF and I mean 6-10 250 ++ with skills like a Kwame Brown, I would nt hesitate to move Mike. I think right now that Nazr has proved to be a keeper. hes playing very, very well, but its imperative to put a BIG PF next to him. KT is a very good player, I think that a combination trade of Thomas and Sweetney should bring us back real solid value at the 4.
RIP Crushalot😞
teslawlo
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12/9/2004  6:32 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Stevo718:

Yeah I think you are right in most aspects of your assesment of Sweetney, he has no explosiveness off his feet and I don't see anything special from him. He has no lateral movement either.

Let's say he lost 25 lbs and got down to 250 I see a PF that could get to the line pretty often and block a few shots here and there and grab a few boards, not that he doesn't do some of that now. But he is too undersized and does not have the talent or skill of Brand or Barkley.

I have not seen anything spectacular from him and if i could trade him as a package for a C, I would in a second. Isiah wants a "more athletic" team, and it makes me wonder why he is so high on Sweets when he is not athletic. For once in the last 5 years I want true position players at their true positions.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.



You're absolutley right, 100% that MS NEEDS to lose 25 pounds down to 250. He's got a lot of skill, he's a hard worker with top notch character. He needs that extra weight loss to increase agaility and make up for size defeciencies. That being said, if there is a BIG PF and I mean 6-10 250 ++ with skills like a Kwame Brown, I would nt hesitate to move Mike. I think right now that Nazr has proved to be a keeper. hes playing very, very well, but its imperative to put a BIG PF next to him. KT is a very good player, I think that a combination trade of Thomas and Sweetney should bring us back real solid value at the 4.
there's an idea
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Bonn1997
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12/9/2004  6:38 PM
I wouldn't trade Sweetney for Collison even if Seattle threw in their 2005 1st rd pick (which would be in the late 20s right now)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12/09/2004 18:39:18]
fishmike
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12/9/2004  8:22 PM
by the way Collison is 6'9 and is also 2 years older than Sweetney
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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12/9/2004  8:36 PM
At the time, I said I wouldn't care if we chose between Sweetney or Collison. I just wanted one of them. If we ended up trading Sweetney for Collison today, I wouldn't mind. Collison is a nice quality player and an inch or 2 taller than Sweetney. Sweetney is nice with a hard work ethic, but there are plenty of other players, equally nice, but lighter, and work just as hard.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
franco12
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12/9/2004  9:06 PM
the flashes that sweetney shows- the o rebounding and low post moves- are not things you can teach- they are inante talents-

Sweetney reminds me a little of charles barkley- he plays bigger than he is and is deceptively quick.

Sweetney might never become anything-

and if you're going to talk about mistakes- sorry, go back to 02 when we traded Camby and (the rights to) Nene for McDyss~
rain
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12/9/2004  9:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:

by the way Collison is 6'9 and is also 2 years older than Sweetney
At the nba combine he measured 6'9.5 without his shoes.. that translates to 6'10.5. NBA scouts, at the time, were surprised by this. If you see him on the court.. he doesn't look like a 6'9 player, he was the same height at Duncan on the court.
fishmike
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12/9/2004  9:54 PM
http://collegebasketballnews.scout.com/2/115362.html

Sorry.. I remember going over all this stuff before that draft. Nick is 6'8 1/2 without shoes. His verticle reach is exactly half and inch more than Sweetney's. Stick your thumb out. The width is about half an inch. Please tell me how or why this matters.

Nick may become a nice player but he didnt show the kind of upside Sweetney has at either the college or pro level. Sweetney was a better post player, shot blocker and rebounder. Point blank.

The real suprise was David West's wingspan at 7'4
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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