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Ernie Grunfeld
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playa2
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12/8/2004  11:22 AM
This guy has turned the wizards around with good draft oicks and great trades. Just think if he would have never been ousted by the lil man Vandummy.

This is the reason why I dislike the guy.

Grunfeld was bringing the knicks to a new style of play ...uptempo, But jeff wanted halfcourt guys and helped gGrunfeld get canned and then VG bailed on us.

Grunfeld has to be sitting back feeling good about his departure from NY, HE HAS BIG MENOUT THE YING YANG(haywood-E.Thomas-Kwame Brown) and also has scorers in Jamison, A 2 way player in Larry Hughes. Versatility player in Jared Jeffries a pg WHO DESTROYS teams in Gilbert Arenas. bench guys who can fill it up in Jarvis Hayes.


The New York knicks Fans desereve a team assembled byErinie Grunfeld like the Washington Wizards!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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diderotn
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12/8/2004  11:51 AM
90% of these guys were acquired by Jordan. Therefore, Jordan is to be given credit for all of those players. In my opinion, Jamison is the reason why this group is doing well. He is a quiet assassin, and the Knicks should have pursued him when he was available. The problem is that Isiah was so concerned with Walker, he failed to realize how important of a game that Jamison can provide to our squad.




(Grunfeld has to be sitting back feeling good about his departure from NY, HE HAS BIG MENOUT THE YING YANG(haywood-E.Thomas-Kwame Brown) and also has scorers in Jamison, A 2 way player in Larry Hughes. Versatility player in Jared Jeffries a pg WHO DESTROYS teams in Gilbert Arenas. bench guys who can fill it up in Jarvis Hayes.)



Posted by playa2:

This guy has turned the wizards around with good draft oicks and great trades. Just think if he would have never been ousted by the lil man Vandummy.

This is the reason why I dislike the guy.

Grunfeld was bringing the knicks to a new style of play ...uptempo, But jeff wanted halfcourt guys and helped gGrunfeld get canned and then VG bailed on us.

Grunfeld has to be sitting back feeling good about his departure from NY, HE HAS BIG MENOUT THE YING YANG(haywood-E.Thomas-Kwame Brown) and also has scorers in Jamison, A 2 way player in Larry Hughes. Versatility player in Jared Jeffries a pg WHO DESTROYS teams in Gilbert Arenas. bench guys who can fill it up in Jarvis Hayes.


The New York knicks Fans desereve a team assembled byErinie Grunfeld like the Washington Wizards!
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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12/8/2004  12:00 PM
Jordan is an idiot and every personel move he made backfired. Please post on a subject when you know what your talking about...

Now Playa... here your on to something. Mindlessly taking knocks on JVG is pointless and gets old, but you definatly have something here. I think if we had let JVG go and kept Ernie this franchise would be in a VERY different state that it was when Isiah took over the mess.

I loved Ernie.. I thought he had real vision and took good risks, even if it meant an unpopular move like Camby for Oakley. Hopefully Isiah can make the kind of moves Ernie has. The one problem is cap space, and we dont and never will have it. However Isiah can use the draft to turn this franchise around the next 2 years.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
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12/8/2004  12:03 PM
Grunfield brought in Spree and Camby.......

Van Gundy was just about to lise his job but something internally happened that made them get rid of Grunfeld instead.....

Grunfields guy took the Knicks to the finals.....then they got Layden and he tried to get Layden his type of player and this is why we have Isiah....

At least now the Knicks are building a new Identity and there is no real drama going on like between Dolan, Dave Check, Van Gundy and Pat Ewing.....

In Isiah we trust.....Isiah seems to be taking a cautious approach this season. I think his next move will make or break this team.....it can't get any worse.
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martin
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12/8/2004  12:04 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Jordan is an idiot and every personel move he made backfired. Please post on a subject when you know what your talking about...

Now Playa... here your on to something. Mindlessly taking knocks on JVG is pointless and gets old, but you definatly have something here. I think if we had let JVG go and kept Ernie this franchise would be in a VERY different state that it was when Isiah took over the mess.

I loved Ernie.. I thought he had real vision and took good risks, even if it meant an unpopular move like Camby for Oakley. Hopefully Isiah can make the kind of moves Ernie has. The one problem is cap space, and we dont and never will have it. However Isiah can use the draft to turn this franchise around the next 2 years.

I'll do you one better: I would have kept Ernie... and would have kept Don Nelson as coach too.
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fishmike
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12/8/2004  12:14 PM
my problem with Nellie is we had Ewing in his prime, yet Nelson wanted to run the offense through Anthony Mason. To me that just doesnt make sense (except from Mase's point of view).

Ernie didnt draft well w/ the Knicks but at least he drafted. LAyden just traded the damn picks.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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12/8/2004  12:46 PM
he made some good moves for young established vets thats for sure.


can you imagine the crying going on here if we didnt have kwame etan and haywood was suspended for the first 4 games? weve been so fortunate in terms of injuries compared to 90+% of the league the last 2 years. yeah allan is down but he played his entire carer without missing time--and that is hard to do. But we still have excuse people, like it doesnt happen to every team.
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Nalod
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12/8/2004  12:59 PM
Nellie was on the right track. Even if Mase failed, we would have gone in a different directions with someone else.

Haywood and Kwame are ****. The east is ****. We are in first place with a losing record. Lets see the Wiz goe west.

That team has been **** for 10 years straight, they and all historical **** teams eventually do some smart things and get it right. Firing michael was a smart thing.
playa2
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12/8/2004  1:14 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by fishmike:

Jordan is an idiot and every personel move he made backfired. Please post on a subject when you know what your talking about...

Now Playa... here your on to something. Mindlessly taking knocks on JVG is pointless and gets old, but you definatly have something here. I think if we had let JVG go and kept Ernie this franchise would be in a VERY different state that it was when Isiah took over the mess.

I loved Ernie.. I thought he had real vision and took good risks, even if it meant an unpopular move like Camby for Oakley. Hopefully Isiah can make the kind of moves Ernie has. The one problem is cap space, and we dont and never will have it. However Isiah can use the draft to turn this franchise around the next 2 years.

I'll do you one better: I would have kept Ernie... and would have kept Don Nelson as coach too.


Martin I agree 100% Nellie knew what he was doing , Pat Ewing use to telegraph his passes out of the post and Mason had a better handle and could pass out the post so much better than Ewing.

Now that didn't mean that ewing wouldn't be a part of the offense he would, but used in a different way.

Here comes vg kissing up to ewing so that ewings plan to dethrone Nellie would succeed.

This is when the knicks took on a different path that we haven't recovered from since.

Ernie and Nellie would have us smilingas knick fans right about now!

Nellie has an owner who spends big bucks just like ours, and Grunfeld has an exciting team that plays hard and are fun to watch.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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12/8/2004  1:23 PM
Briggs... I think the only time people really cried about the injuries were against the Nets. I know you for one were talking about the sweep proved we arent even close to being a good team, but we had no Houston, no TT and KT's pinky made him ineffective. That sucked because it was only 4 games.

Injuries would be the best thing that could happen to us. If Marbs broke say a finger and had to miss 3 months while KT reinjured his pinky and needed surgury. Say we go 32-50 move up and win the #2 pick overall. Then trade the rights to Chris Taft along with TT and $3mm for Brand and Wilcox. Then we move Nazr and a conditional future #1 for Artest.

Next year:
Marbury
Crawford
Artest
Brand
Wilcox
bench: Ariza, Sweetney, KT, Houston, JYD
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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12/8/2004  1:44 PM
grunfeld had balls. to trade oakley for camby was an f'n ballsy move and a move made with vision.

spree fell into our laps but he definitely did try to put together a team that would take over after ewing.

he did a good job but lost the power struggle in 99. he went to milwaukee and did a good job there and now he's in washington doing good things there.

he's a real good gm.

it's like one of those "what if" comics talking about van gundy and grunfeld. i wonder how it would've turned out.

isiah needs to make one of those big time big man gamble moves like oakley for camby or davis for o'neal.
gunsnewing
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12/8/2004  1:50 PM
how about he starts with Kurt Thomas for Eddy Curry or another young low post threat
fishmike
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12/8/2004  1:59 PM
while I dont like Eddy Curry I couldnt knock that move. I really dont want Curry but we arent winning with KT, so lets get more talent and better assets. The thing that scares me about Curry is what kind of contract is he going to get?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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12/8/2004  2:01 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

he made some good moves for young established vets thats for sure.


can you imagine the crying going on here if we didnt have kwame etan and haywood was suspended for the first 4 games? weve been so fortunate in terms of injuries compared to 90+% of the league the last 2 years. yeah allan is down but he played his entire carer without missing time--and that is hard to do. But we still have excuse people, like it doesnt happen to every team.
Didn't Antonio McDyess have some sort of minor knee problem?
Bonn1997
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12/8/2004  2:04 PM
Posted by fishmike:

while I dont like Eddy Curry I couldnt knock that move. I really dont want Curry but we arent winning with KT, so lets get more talent and better assets. The thing that scares me about Curry is what kind of contract is he going to get?

What do you think of a Kurt + $3 mil + Houston's 2nd round pick for Nene trade? I think the Nuggets might do the deal because they're desperate for perimeter shooting and they already have enough young frontcourt players; they could use a steady veteran. Obviously, it would be better to do the deal without the 2nd rd pick and $3 mil included, but it might not be realistic to expect that to happen.
Ira
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12/8/2004  2:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

my problem with Nellie is we had Ewing in his prime, yet Nelson wanted to run the offense through Anthony Mason. To me that just doesnt make sense (except from Mase's point of view).

Ernie didnt draft well w/ the Knicks but at least he drafted. LAyden just traded the damn picks.

My other problem with Nellie was that he benched Starks for Hubert (no d) Davis.
Nalod
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12/8/2004  2:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

while I dont like Eddy Curry I couldnt knock that move. I really dont want Curry but we arent winning with KT, so lets get more talent and better assets. The thing that scares me about Curry is what kind of contract is he going to get?

What do you think of a Kurt + $3 mil + Houston's 2nd round pick for Nene trade? I think the Nuggets might do the deal because they're desperate for perimeter shooting and they already have enough young frontcourt players; they could use a steady veteran. Obviously, it would be better to do the deal without the 2nd rd pick and $3 mil included, but it might not be realistic to expect that to happen.

They need a perimeter shooting guard. Kurt makes a lot more money that NENE.
VDesai
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12/8/2004  3:03 PM
I think Ernie made several good trades, but didn't make enough of them when they counted. Back in 1992-1993 and 1993-1994, the Knicks only big move was to get Derek Harper (and they got him for pretty damn cheap...Tony Campbell and what else). But if they moved to get a PG earlier and/or added another scorer (not necessarily a great guy, but just another option) they probably could've won a title.
playa2
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12/9/2004  12:46 PM
Posted by VDesai:

I think Ernie made several good trades, but didn't make enough of them when they counted. Back in 1992-1993 and 1993-1994, the Knicks only big move was to get Derek Harper (and they got him for pretty damn cheap...Tony Campbell and what else). But if they moved to get a PG earlier and/or added another scorer (not necessarily a great guy, but just another option) they probably could've won a title.

Pat Ewing didn't know how to play with a young creative pg. Ewing wanted to win but he had to always be the man.

A creative pg wouldn't have defered to Ewing everytime in games because of his own ability off the dribble.

I believe this is why the knicks never pursued one.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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