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Did Isiah really offer H20/TT for Vince and Jalen?
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s3231
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12/7/2004  6:50 PM
"But Isiah Thomas may do his best to scuttle that deal. Sources last night said the struggling Knicks were making another strong push for Carter and would take Rose, too. The package is said to include Allan Houston, who is ready to play after knee surgery but wasn't activated by the Knicks last night as expected. Tim Thomas and or Penny Hardaway might be involved as well.

Sources close to Carter have said New York would top his wish list of destinations but that won't be a consideration for Babcock, who has refused all comment on trade speculation."

Rose detects all the tell-tale signs of deal



This is getting very interesting especially since it has been reported that Portland is now out of the Vince Carter race. Any thoughts?
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  6:55 PM
The Portland offer is better than any offer we would make because Shareef has an expiring deal and is better than any player we would offer. Did Portland retract that offer?
s3231
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12/7/2004  7:17 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

The Portland offer is better than any offer we would make because Shareef has an expiring deal and is better than any player we would offer. Did Portland retract that offer?







I'm not sure what happened with Portland but one of my friends was watching ESPN News today and told me that they said Portland was out of the running.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
MaTT4281
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12/7/2004  7:56 PM
I don't see why that would be better for Toronto. Houston's contract completely negates Rose's.
Killa4luv
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12/7/2004  8:40 PM
I have a friend who is close to Tim Thomas and he says that Tim seems sure that the toronto trade will happen. He says it will be announced in a few days.

I still find it hard to believe, because they really don't get a star back and they really can't even be sure of H20's health. Who is gonna fill that Arena?

We'll see. I guess its a good trade but it is not what we need and what do wit all those 3's?

Ariza, Jalen Rose, Vince?

We will probably trade trevor, but we need a big man a 4 or 5 shot blocker/ rebounder.
MaTT4281
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12/7/2004  8:50 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have a friend who is close to Tim Thomas and he says that Tim seems sure that the toronto trade will happen. He says it will be announced in a few days.

I still find it hard to believe, because they really don't get a star back and they really can't even be sure of H20's health. Who is gonna fill that Arena?

We'll see. I guess its a good trade but it is not what we need and what do wit all those 3's?

Ariza, Jalen Rose, Vince?

We will probably trade trevor, but we need a big man a 4 or 5 shot blocker/ rebounder.

I'm not going to question the validity of him being close to Tim, because either way, and you can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but players are often out of the loop for transactions.
martin
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12/7/2004  9:15 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have a friend who is close to Tim Thomas and he says that Tim seems sure that the toronto trade will happen. He says it will be announced in a few days.

I still find it hard to believe, because they really don't get a star back and they really can't even be sure of H20's health. Who is gonna fill that Arena?

We'll see. I guess its a good trade but it is not what we need and what do wit all those 3's?

Ariza, Jalen Rose, Vince?

We will probably trade trevor, but we need a big man a 4 or 5 shot blocker/ rebounder.

wow. interesting. Any details to add?

Is it Houston/TT for Rose/VC? any extras?
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Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  11:08 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have a friend who is close to Tim Thomas and he says that Tim seems sure that the toronto trade will happen. He says it will be announced in a few days.

I still find it hard to believe, because they really don't get a star back and they really can't even be sure of H20's health. Who is gonna fill that Arena?

We'll see. I guess its a good trade but it is not what we need and what do wit all those 3's?

Ariza, Jalen Rose, Vince?

We will probably trade trevor, but we need a big man a 4 or 5 shot blocker/ rebounder.
If the Knicks do something like a Houston and TT for Vince and Rose deal, I'd have mixed thoughts. It's an upgrade talent wise, but I'm not sure how well the players fit together. If we had done this kind of trade over the offseason, we could have used the MLE and/or our expiring contracts on a big man instead. The trade is an undeniable talent improvement for the Knicks, though. Vince is better than Houston and Rose and TT are probably similar talent wise, although Rose is playing better this year.

We're making a big deal out a trade that hasn't even happened yet, though.
Knicksfan
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12/7/2004  11:12 PM
Huh? Where did this come from? When suddenly H20 is wanted by teams when he hasn't even played a minute this season?
Knicks_Fan
Nalod
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12/7/2004  11:12 PM
I like Allan. I want Allan to do well again in a knick uniform. I don't like Vince. I don't like his stupid scowl, candy ass atittide.

I hate Rose.

Its a talent upgrade, but just not the cast of charactor I prefer.

TT may be Gazy, but at least he is not an *******.

Rose and Vince are *******s. The embody much of what is wrong with the professional athlete.

I like Trevor and prefer to watch this nice kid grow into a player.

I'd rather lose then sell out and have those two in the uniform.

Same old Knick Star Phuching if they do that trade.

Whats this place becomeing, Isiahs home for the wayword spoiled rotten overpaid underacheiveing player? How much more salary is he taking on?

The game I watched tonite was lost inside, we got beaten to shreads by a huge Memphis team with good perimeter shooting.

We don't need Carter and Rose, we need some big bodies! Nazr was just outsized.

Knicksfan
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12/7/2004  11:15 PM
And why making this deal anyway? What, you no longer love expiring contracts? Vince and Rose are defensive stopers? Any of those guys is over 7'0"?

Vince is a star? So what, he doesn't help us with- like BRIGGS sais- what ails us....
Knicks_Fan
Knicksfan
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12/7/2004  11:16 PM
Oh, don't tell me you believe we need offense...?
Knicks_Fan
Knicksfan
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12/7/2004  11:19 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I like Allan. I want Allan to do well again in a knick uniform. I don't like Vince. I don't like his stupid scowl, candy ass atittide.

I hate Rose.

Its a talent upgrade, but just not the cast of charactor I prefer.

TT may be Gazy, but at least he is not an *******.

Rose and Vince are *******s. The embody much of what is wrong with the professional athlete.

I like Trevor and prefer to watch this nice kid grow into a player.

I'd rather lose then sell out and have those two in the uniform.

Same old Knick Star Phuching if they do that trade.

Whats this place becomeing, Isiahs home for the wayword spoiled rotten overpaid underacheiveing player? How much more salary is he taking on?

The game I watched tonite was lost inside, we got beaten to shreads by a huge Memphis team with good perimeter shooting.

We don't need Carter and Rose, we need some big bodies! Nazr was just outsized.

Completely agree
Knicks_Fan
Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  11:20 PM
I don't think Vince's perimeter defense is worse than TT's. So, I don't think the trade hurts us on defense. And as bad as our perimeter D has been, we do also need help on offense. The team has really struggled to score points at times. If the Knicks have confidence in Houston's ability to return to normal and stay healthy, the trade would make little sense. Otherwise, it's more sensible.
From a Raptors' standpoint, the trade definitely does not help them, other than clearing a little (not even a lot) of salary.
Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  11:21 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by Nalod:

I like Allan. I want Allan to do well again in a knick uniform. I don't like Vince. I don't like his stupid scowl, candy ass atittide.

I hate Rose.

Its a talent upgrade, but just not the cast of charactor I prefer.

TT may be Gazy, but at least he is not an *******.

Rose and Vince are *******s. The embody much of what is wrong with the professional athlete.

I like Trevor and prefer to watch this nice kid grow into a player.

I'd rather lose then sell out and have those two in the uniform.

Same old Knick Star Phuching if they do that trade.

Whats this place becomeing, Isiahs home for the wayword spoiled rotten overpaid underacheiveing player? How much more salary is he taking on?

The game I watched tonite was lost inside, we got beaten to shreads by a huge Memphis team with good perimeter shooting.

We don't need Carter and Rose, we need some big bodies! Nazr was just outsized.

Completely agree
If Vince comes here, it will be his job to win over the fans. At one point, the fans dreaded the thought of Spree coming here because of character issues but he won over the fans.
gunsnewing
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12/7/2004  11:23 PM
Carter can still play with a change of scenery. The problem is does this trade help out cap situation. I'm guessing it'll kill our cap otherwise why woul toronto ever consider taking TT and allan
Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  11:27 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Carter can still play with a change of scenery. The problem is does this trade help out cap situation. I'm guessing it'll kill our cap otherwise why woul toronto ever consider taking TT and allan
Carter and Rose each have 1 yr more than Houston and TT. It's not a disaster as far as salary goes. I don't think it's a deal that Toronto should be considering, though. It doesn't help them too much cap-wise. I hope the deal isn't TT and Penny for those two players. That trade gets rid of our two best trade assets next year.
Knicksfan
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12/7/2004  11:28 PM
Well, if it doesn't do something extremely significant with out D and hurts our chances of trading for a Big with expiring contracts, then I don't like the deal. Our offense isn't really the problem. Every team has stretches where they don't score easily in the game. Its the defense that helps you go through those times. We score fine, but when you start missing normal shots but the other team keeps scoring because of your D not playing well, you will lose. Sometimes we've had leads that have vanished in a heartbeat because of that defense. If you play good defense it will affect your O in a good way too (easy baskets).

The deal may not be completely bad, but it really doesn't take us to another level. I wouldn't make the deal...
Knicks_Fan
Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  11:30 PM
It would be a dream to have Bosh included in the deal, but it's probably close to a 0% chance of that happening.
Knicksfan
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12/7/2004  11:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

It would be a dream to have Bosh included in the deal, but it's probably close to a 0% chance of that happening.

Yep
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Did Isiah really offer H20/TT for Vince and Jalen?
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