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What about a Houston trade for Hill......?????
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diderotn
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12/6/2004  3:40 PM
Hey they are both hurting, but one is more serviceable than another. I know that N.Y loves Houston ability to shoot the ball, but Hill is a much better leader and a much better all around player with a much shorter contract. Do you believe that the Knicks and Orlando would consider this deal? Also, what about a Kurt for Chandler deal??? Since you all have over abused a Kurt for Curry deal, do you believe that Chandler can be our Center? Also, what about a Sweetney, Penny, and TT trade for Carter and Rose? We can always trade Rose to another by mid-season.

If all those deal were to go down as stated above, our lineup would be as follow:

Marburry
Carter
Hill
Nazr
Chandler.

Second string

Brewer
Crawff
Ariza
JYD
Vinny.

This to me is a much more balanced roster. We would have at least two defender per lineup, and definite postup players per squad. This is also a better defensive and scoring roster.

Think about it....
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Bonn1997
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12/6/2004  3:46 PM
Maybe 2 years ago Orlando would have done this deal. Now they'd just laugh at it as Hill is far better than Houston at nearly every aspect of the game.
diderotn
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12/6/2004  3:49 PM
I agree with you about Orlando, but what about the other deals???


Posted by Bonn1997:

Maybe 2 years ago Orlando would have done this deal. Now they'd just laugh at it as Hill is far better than Houston at nearly every aspect of the game.
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fishmike
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12/6/2004  3:59 PM
flush
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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12/6/2004  4:04 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I agree with you about Orlando, but what about the other deals???


Posted by Bonn1997:

Maybe 2 years ago Orlando would have done this deal. Now they'd just laugh at it as Hill is far better than Houston at nearly every aspect of the game.
Oh, I didn't see those! I only read the first few sentences and then assumed the rest of the post was about a Houston for Hill deal! Sorry!

what about a Kurt for Chandler deal???
I would love that deal. Chandler has a lot of upside, is playing great now, and can do a lot of things Kurt can't do. I don't think Chicago would do that deal, though. Maybe they would do a Nazy plus Houston's 2nd rd pick (which we have) for Chandler deal. This would help us in the long-term but might hurt us in the short-term because the team struggles so much without Nazy on the court. I actually prefer Chandler over Curry because he (Chandler) plays with much more heart and desire on both ends of the court.

Also, what about a Sweetney, Penny, and TT trade for Carter and Rose?
I wouldn't do that deal even without Sweetney being included. I don't want Rose. His attitude hurts teams and he has a bad contract. We can get much more for TT and Penny in next summer when they both have expiring contracts. Unless we get a truly outstanding offer now, I would just hold onto those players until they have expiring contracts.

Knickss208
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12/6/2004  6:51 PM
Ok you are all crazy. Kurt is a very valuable player to our team. You give him up for a crappy player like Chandler then you have no idea how bad this team will become. And that Grant Hill for Houston trade is ludicrous because Orlando would never even consider it.
Pike
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12/6/2004  7:04 PM
... we couldn't trade Allan Houston for a bag of used sneakers.
diderotn
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12/6/2004  8:46 PM
Damn dude!!!!! LOL

Posted by Pike:

... we couldn't trade Allan Houston for a bag of used sneakers.
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MaTT4281
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12/6/2004  10:02 PM
Posted by Pike:

... we couldn't trade Allan Houston for a bag of used sneakers.

Depends on how overpriced the sneakers are.

Ok you are all crazy. Kurt is a very valuable player to our team. You give him up for a crappy player like Chandler then you have no idea how bad this team will become.
Kurt is very valueable to us, but that's not saying Chandler wouldn't be. He is also a very good player, and much younger than Kurt. I would do that in a heart beat, but Chicago wouldn't.
diderotn
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12/7/2004  8:13 AM

We need to find a way to get Chandler. His stocks are very low and the Bulls are more willing to keep Curry. A scoring jump shooting PF like Kurt could benefit Curry greatly. Curry could be great in a N.Y uniform, but Chandler's athleticism could benefit Marb, Crawf, Houston, and TT misses a lot more.
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NYKBocker
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12/7/2004  10:07 AM
It's all specultation from this beat writer but ...
Houston's ready, is Carter coming?

Tuesday, December 7, 2004

By STEVE ADAMEK
STAFF WRITER



MEMPHIS - Allan Houston says he's ready to play right now. So, according to Knicks coach Lenny Wilkens, is Moochie Norris.

So, guess which guard comes off the injured list tonight when the Knicks, in the throes of a two-game losing streak, face Mike Fratello's Grizzlies?

Welcome back, Moochie.

But could this scenario be a precursor for a far bigger one: Welcome to New York, Vince Carter?

Reports out of Toronto indicate the reeling Raptors appear ready to deal Carter in a package that would require their trade partner to also take Jalen Rose (with three years and more than $47 million left on his contract).

Enter Houston as a potential chip in a deal the Knicks have hoped to make for weeks by offering Tim Thomas, plus Penny Hardaway (and the two years and $32 million left on his contract).

That's a salary-cap match, but substitute Houston for Hardaway -headed for the injured list today with his right hamstring injury - and Houston plus Thomas for Carter and Rose is a match, too.

Houston plus Hardaway for Carter and Rose, though, would require the Raptors to throw in more salary (e.g. disgruntled point guard and New York playground legend Rafer Alston).

No matter how the principles might be shuffled, there would be a lot of money involved beyond Hardaway and Rose, with Houston due more than $57 million over the next three years, Thomas more than $26 million over the next two, Carter more than $41 million over the next three and Alston in the first season of a six-year, $30 million deal.

However and whenever it plays out, though, the Carter sweepstakes could evolve into something akin to shopping at 10 p.m. on Christmas Eve - a free-for-all with plenty of other potential buyers involved.

That's why Monday's decision on Houston, who participated in his second full-court scrimmage in eight days as part of his knee rehab, seemed curious, for he said, "I could play right now. ... I'm ready."

But he said the decision on when he plays now belongs to team president Isiah Thomas, who through a spokesman said he doesn't want Houston returning for back-to-back games (the Knicks also play Wednesday in New Orleans) and that he wants to remain cautious.

Or, as Thomas said earlier this season, "When he tells me he can go, I'll probably hold him back another couple of days or a week just to make sure."

Yet, Thomas also said earlier, "I trust [Houston's] judgment in terms of what he thinks and how he feels."

"I want [him] to be ready and everybody in the organization wants [him] to be ready," Wilkens said. "We don't want to have a relapse. So we're going to make sure, give him a couple of practices and see."

If Wilkens breaks the unwritten code and practices Thursday following the back-to-back, Houston could be activated by Friday's game in Washington. Or after another practice Saturday, he could be ready to go Sunday vs. Denver.

Whether those serve as test runs for a subsequent deal - the Knicks' version of Jason Kidd's return to the Nets' lineup - is to be determined.

But Carter is out there and Houston is one of the two remaining Knicks (Kurt Thomas is the other) who doesn't bear Isiah Thomas' official brand.

The plot could thicken.
NYKBocker
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12/7/2004  10:08 AM
Man, I don't know if I like this.

PROS:
We get a HUGE upgrade on SF from TT to Vince.
CONS:
We get a HUGE cancer in Rose.
We get 2 huge contracts in Vince and Rose.
We lose Houston's reliable outside shot which we need right now for Zone busting.
Bonn1997
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12/7/2004  10:13 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Man, I don't know if I like this.

PROS:
We get a HUGE upgrade on SF from TT to Vince.
CONS:
We get a HUGE cancer in Rose.
We get 2 huge contracts in Vince and Rose.
We lose Houston's reliable outside shot which we need right now for Zone busting.
The deal would be okay if we're giving up Houston and EITHER TT OR Penny, but I don't like it if we give up BOTH TT AND Penny. Their contracts will be more valuable next season.
jaydh
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12/7/2004  10:15 AM
Cmon, its a total upgrade in every category. Houston isnt half the player vc is, and TT would be lucky to be as good as rose.
Posted by NYKBocker:

Man, I don't know if I like this.

PROS:
We get a HUGE upgrade on SF from TT to Vince.
CONS:
We get a HUGE cancer in Rose.
We get 2 huge contracts in Vince and Rose.
We lose Houston's reliable outside shot which we need right now for Zone busting.
raven
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12/7/2004  10:43 AM
houston is not half the player vc is.
houston is not half the cancer vc is.
houston is not half the primadona vc is.
houston is not half of the half of the half the player vc thinks he is.
houston is not half the overhyped player vc is.

houston can shoot, vc can't
houston has a great attitude, vc does not
houston has been solid and reliable for us since he came in NYC, vc has been nothing but a whinner since he came in toronto
Houston made a shoot against miami to lead us far in the playoffs, vc missed a shoot against philly that sent the raptors home
houston can shoot, vc can dunk

did you watch the games we lost ?

how many times will we have to be zoned to death before you realize that houston, though overpaid and limited defensively, can bring us something that vc can only dream about.

there's the game and there is the nba highlights. people tend to forget the first after watching the second.
Nalod
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12/7/2004  10:49 AM
There remains the possibilty that Allan will be back to allstar level.

either he is fragile and they are nervous, or they want to ensure that their 100millon investment is fine tuned and ready to return to the 22pt scoring machine who can elevate and shoot the day lights out.

The one who can drive to basket.

And do this on a team that has substatial options then he has seen in years.

Allan got better every year prior to the injury. DOn't confuse what he gets paid with how great he is not, but he is one hell of a player and we may just be really surprised.
jaydh
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12/7/2004  10:57 AM
Posted by raven:

houston is not half the player vc is.
houston is not half the cancer vc is.
houston is not half the primadona vc is.
houston is not half of the half of the half the player vc thinks he is.
houston is not half the overhyped player vc is.

houston can shoot, vc can't
houston has a great attitude, vc does not
houston has been solid and reliable for us since he came in NYC, vc has been nothing but a whinner since he came in toronto
Houston made a shoot against miami to lead us far in the playoffs, vc missed a shoot against philly that sent the raptors home
houston can shoot, vc can dunk

did you watch the games we lost ?

how many times will we have to be zoned to death before you realize that houston, though overpaid and limited defensively, can bring us something that vc can only dream about.

there's the game and there is the nba highlights. people tend to forget the first after watching the second.


what a joke that people would rather have houston over carter. all those things were said about marbury before he came to NY, now look at him. i thought we were trying to get younger, more athletic. While carter may not be the shooter houston is, hell, outside of ray allen, no one really is, but carter can do things houston only dreams about. plus carter can actually drive to the hoop, imagine that. i give props to houston for that shot on miami, that summer was one of my fave just cuz of the run they made that year, but other than that, what has houston done for us? average 20ppg on a losing team? if VC is offered for the aged, one injury away from being retired houston, its a no brainer, even if rose is included. he can play the 1,2 or 3. rose always lit us up on indiana and hes much more consistent than TT.
Marv
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12/7/2004  12:26 PM
I vote a huge NO on Carter. Comparing him to Marbury is a joke. Carter has ZERO HEART. You want that on your team?
jaydh
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12/7/2004  3:40 PM
Posted by Marv:

I vote a huge NO on Carter. Comparing him to Marbury is a joke. Carter has ZERO HEART. You want that on your team?

yea i would take carter anyday over houston or TT. just cuz he is unhappy in toronto doesnt mean he still cant play elsewhere. many players just need a change of scenery or to be in an organization that cares. i dont beleive he is a cancer and has zero heart. he just lacks the right leadership and management to get him motivated and involved. and everyone said marbury was a cancer(when he was in jersey and phoenix), he only cares about his stats.. then he comes here and is a changed man(due mostly to management). VC a cancer, i dont think so. unmotivated, yes, unhappy, yes. but he is still way more talented than anyone on NY. next thing ya know, i'll be hearing VC is no better than tim thomas. PLEASE! you people are blinded!
Marv
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12/7/2004  5:46 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Marv:

I vote a huge NO on Carter. Comparing him to Marbury is a joke. Carter has ZERO HEART. You want that on your team?

yea i would take carter anyday over houston or TT. just cuz he is unhappy in toronto doesnt mean he still cant play elsewhere. many players just need a change of scenery or to be in an organization that cares. i dont beleive he is a cancer and has zero heart. he just lacks the right leadership and management to get him motivated and involved. and everyone said marbury was a cancer(when he was in jersey and phoenix), he only cares about his stats.. then he comes here and is a changed man(due mostly to management). VC a cancer, i dont think so. unmotivated, yes, unhappy, yes. but he is still way more talented than anyone on NY. next thing ya know, i'll be hearing VC is no better than tim thomas. PLEASE! you people are blinded!

jay, Carter is a horrible basketball player. Marbury turned himself around in Phoenix after he sat in a jail cell looking himself square in the mirror and dealing with what an a**hole he had become. No one changes till they face what needs to be changed . And no, I wasn't there with him but I read some pretty deep interviews with him after that.

Marbs was selfish and a prima donna with Minn and NJ but he busted his a** every second on the court. He wasn't a wuss, dog, waste of talent spinelsess quitter for a single second. In case you're wondering, I'm referring to Carter here.

And to answer your final question yes I wouild rather have TT than VC. TT will soon be back at his 16/5 level for the knicks that he was last year, yoiu can see it in the progression of his play game to game. As much as he is a turkey with borderline intelligence even he doesn't disgust me to the level that the supreme loser carter does. Oak nailed this guy to the tree and pegged him perfectly.
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