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An opinion about artest
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BRIGGS
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12/4/2004  11:34 PM
we made a move on sprewell when he was down in the gutter and while Artest is a much different commodity--likely still valued higher--i believe there are only a number of teams who can stomach him.

I think the Pacers have had enough of him and would be willing to dump him for a steep price.

Next year, Im willing to give Crawford and Sweetney to get him. Im willing to go that high because I understand the value of Artest. I continue to learn on just how important TWO way players are. Now a guy like Marbury is a main component because he is tough and he s a pure superstar. Now of course we wont do this--BUt this is the way I want the team to move--no more Tim thomas's stay the F away from Vince Carter-Jalen Rose--from now on two way players. JYD is an example of a guy who shows you a lower level in terms of skill, but the right type of play. Everyone likes him because hes a two way player who goes out at 125% and doesnt cry about fugazy.
RIP Crushalot😞
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Rich
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12/4/2004  11:58 PM
No way. Any important assets that are traded need to go toward obtaining a young C (Curry, Nene, Kwame).

Artest wouldn't be a difference maker on this team without a big man.
Bonn1997
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12/5/2004  12:46 AM
Posted by Rich:

No way. Any important assets that are traded need to go toward obtaining a young C (Curry, Nene, Kwame).

Artest wouldn't be a difference maker on this team without a big man.
Let Ariza be our SF of the future. Go after someone like Kwame or maybe Curry or Nene or Chandler or Dalembert over the offseason. Artest is worth obtaining, but not if we're giving up Crawford or Marbury or crucial expiring contracts that could be used to get a big man

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12/05/2004 00:47:19]
Elite
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12/5/2004  1:12 AM
i dunno if i would give THAT much but i'll sure take him!!!!

I think sweetney can be one of our best players they jus need to give his ass the ball he always makes **** happen in the post
fishmike
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12/5/2004  2:48 AM
i dont get it... first you say only a few teams could stomach him.. then you give up Sweetney and Crawford. No no no... What you give up is KT (perfect PF next to Oneil) cash and the rights to whoever you draft. Otherwise you move on... I think thats considerably better than Mills, Cummings and Starks who were all at the end of their ropes, and Mills had a long term deal (5 years?) at the time.
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Nalod
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12/5/2004  5:09 AM
When the going gets tough, this guy melts down. HE is SOFT at dealing with adversity and breaks down under stress.

A guy like that can lead you to the door of the promise land, but cant cross over.

I would be wary of bringing him back to the city where many distractions await him.

Hell of a talent, and a nice kid. Smolder the fire that burns him into destruction on the court might dull that sharp edge that makes him the great player. But a destructive one also.

Pootie MeWell was a different story, if you got him on the court, he was great. It was his off court problems that was a distraction. Big difference. Ron's contract is a great bargain, but he'll want more money, and what happens when the pressure of that infects his concentration?





[Edited by - nalod on 12/05/2004 05:12:27]
MaTT4281
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12/5/2004  9:53 AM
I would love to get Artest, but Sweetney and Craw is too much. They're both going to be important pieces to this franchise in later years.
Artest would be a chance (one that I would love to take, but at the right price). We don't know if one day he's just going to get up and decide to retire, we don't know how long he will be on tour for his future cd's *cough*cough*.
I don't think other teams would be willing to give up that much either.
BRIGGS
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12/5/2004  10:39 AM
the one thing that is clear is that you win with guys like artest. no doubt that he is still going to be on edge, but so was dennis rodman his whole career and all he did was win 5 rings.
RIP Crushalot😞
MaTT4281
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12/5/2004  10:43 AM
I seriously don't think Artest will end up with 5 rings. I recall reading something about him wanting to retire after he gets a ring.
That's why you better have someone to replace him if by some off chance you achieve the ultimate goal of getting the ring. If you're not prepared, it would just basically be a hit and run if Artest can put you on that level.
martin
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12/5/2004  12:46 PM
I am with BRIGGS on this one, but I give up Ariza before I give up Sweets, because teams trade same positional players for one another, and the Knicks need a post player or they need to trade for a post player.

I would go as far as trading 1st rounder 2005, Ariza, JYD, expiring contract (TT or Penny) for Artest and a bloated long-term player. That's how high I am on Ron.

Look, Artest can SHUT DOWN a 2 or 3. Those players are usually high scoring players. Or he can take a 3 or big 2 in the post ALL DAY LONG and score on them. That creates a mismatch for your team, which is how you win games.

The guy is looney, who cares. So was Rodman. You need structure around that type of player, and in NY, you have it.

Soft mentally? Are you kidding me? This guy is tough as nails! Are you saying that just because he blew it during 1 or 2 games during the playoffs he is done from playing in the playoffs again? Didn't Isiah throw the ball away to Bird in the conference finals? Does that make Isiah soft? How many times did Dumars and Isiah lose before they won? How about Jordan?

The guy is a nut job, so what. He WANTS TO WIN!!! I want him to be Knicks' nut job.
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Nalod
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12/5/2004  12:53 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

the one thing that is clear is that you win with guys like artest. no doubt that he is still going to be on edge, but so was dennis rodman his whole career and all he did was win 5 rings.

Dennis was a great on the floor, his antics were off the court (except when he kick the camera man in the balls).

Dennis's intensity on the court was calculated and he KNEW WHEN TO STOP AND LET HIS TEAM DO ITS THING. ROn loses it.

Guys that can't control their temper are soft! Of course he is "tough as nails" as he plays harder than anyone in the game. But there are times when you get calls, and you don't. there are times to send a flagerant message, and there are times you don't. He is not in the moment. His primal reactions to situations are destructive.

If he can mature and understand the game tnd temper his reactions, he will not be "soft mentally".
BigSm00th
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12/5/2004  1:52 PM
I'd do this deal, as Briggs said, you need 2-way players to win on a big level, and the Knicks don't have many right now.

I'd rather look to give up KT and negotiate and play hard ball, but be willing to give up some good pieces to get Artest, becuase I can count the number of players nowadays who score 20+ points and absolutely shuts down the guy they're guarding on the other end.
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MaTT4281
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12/5/2004  2:22 PM
I'd rather look to give up KT and negotiate and play hard ball, but be willing to give up some good pieces to get Artest, becuase I can count the number of players nowadays who score 20+ points and absolutely shuts down the guy they're guarding on the other end.

So if you were bad at math, or didn't know your numbers, you would be against this? Heh sorry, I'm assuming you meant on one hand or something along that line.

But the guys we'd be giving up have so much promise to them. Who knows, they may turn out to be average to slightly above average players, or they both may turn into players that are great on both ends.
They're only 22 and 24, Sweets lately has shown he can block shots, and Craw can still develop some nice D (he's been giving a good effort, especially with all his deflected passes, just needs some more time).
I don't think either of their offensive abilities are in question here.

[Edited by - MaTT4281 on 12/05/2004 14:24:02]
Bonn1997
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12/5/2004  3:08 PM
I'm with Fish on this one. I'd offer something like Kurt and the rights to whoever we draft. Or maybe our smaller expiring contracts (Vin, Moochie) and take back one bad short-term contract. But our key trade assets need to be used on an athletic PF/C. And I wouldn't give up young players who are part of the team's future like Jamal, Ariza, or Sweetney.
BigSm00th
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12/5/2004  4:03 PM
To get good players you have to give up good players.

My bad Matt, I did mean on one hand. Who else besides Artest averages 20+ and is a defensive stopper? KG? Duncan? There really aren't many.

Artest and Isiah are tight, he'd be in NY, and Crawford, as much as I love him, will never be as good as Artest is defensively.

The Pacers are in a hole now, with Tinsley down and all their suspensions, they need some depth. Giving them KT and Crawford, taking back Artest and Bender or Pollard (either young player or expiring contract) is worth the risk. Artest is only 5 months older than Crawford.

I'm willing to take the risk. Don't give up two young players, only give them Crawford, who they desperately need, and a good complement to JO. The Knicks take the chance that the Marbury/Artest backcourt would be the bes tin the NBA.
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martin
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12/5/2004  6:40 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by BRIGGS:

the one thing that is clear is that you win with guys like artest. no doubt that he is still going to be on edge, but so was dennis rodman his whole career and all he did was win 5 rings.

Dennis was a great on the floor, his antics were off the court (except when he kick the camera man in the balls).

Dennis's intensity on the court was calculated and he KNEW WHEN TO STOP AND LET HIS TEAM DO ITS THING. ROn loses it.

remember Dennis in San Antonio? No structure and off his rocker.
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Nalod
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12/5/2004  11:22 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by BRIGGS:

the one thing that is clear is that you win with guys like artest. no doubt that he is still going to be on edge, but so was dennis rodman his whole career and all he did was win 5 rings.

Dennis was a great on the floor, his antics were off the court (except when he kick the camera man in the balls).

I think of Rodman with the pistons and Bulls. The rest of it was his clown act. Denis got 5 rings! He was not volatile enough to be detramental to that ulitmate cause. Ron Ron is holding his team back. Ron is more integrated in the offense than Rodman was too.

Dennis's intensity on the court was calculated and he KNEW WHEN TO STOP AND LET HIS TEAM DO ITS THING. ROn loses it.

remember Dennis in San Antonio? No structure and off his rocker.
martin
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12/6/2004  12:06 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by BRIGGS:

the one thing that is clear is that you win with guys like artest. no doubt that he is still going to be on edge, but so was dennis rodman his whole career and all he did was win 5 rings.

Dennis was a great on the floor, his antics were off the court (except when he kick the camera man in the balls).

I think of Rodman with the pistons and Bulls. The rest of it was his clown act. Denis got 5 rings! He was not volatile enough to be detramental to that ulitmate cause. Ron Ron is holding his team back. Ron is more integrated in the offense than Rodman was too.

Dennis's intensity on the court was calculated and he KNEW WHEN TO STOP AND LET HIS TEAM DO ITS THING. ROn loses it.

remember Dennis in San Antonio? No structure and off his rocker.

This incident definitely sets the Indiana team back. How else did RonRon hold this team back?
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Nalod
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12/6/2004  9:08 AM
Indy had Detroit on the ropes last year. His distraction MIGHT have led to them losing confidence.

The year before (Isiahs team), they got bounced int he first round after a hot first half season. His tirades drain the team of momentum.

Oh, almost forgot. He is supsended for the season.

I rarely do the prediction thing, but I have said many times prior that this guy stifles the teams progress and would cause big trouble. I thought he would be in the middle of a big fight and actually land a few big punches and hurt someone. I did not see fighting with fans coming!

Isiah needs to write his tell-all bash book and then we can find his spin.

No doubt he is a force and great player. Its just that he can't be trusted. Thats not to say he can't change.
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